Good Fruit, Good Root
A podcast dedicated to delving into scripture in order to find a rootedness which produces the fruits of the spirit.
Good Fruit, Good Root
The Sacrament of Sanctification (John 13:1-20)
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Join hosts Denise and Kyla as they journey through the timely topics of Biblical Madness, foot washing and the Last Supper. What is sanctification? What isn't sanctification? And how is it revealed in washing feet? We examine the text of John 13 to provide answers to these important questions, and in so doing we experience a sincere revelation of the love of Jesus Christ—a love that we are called to show to others through holy service.
Shalom everybody and welcome back to another episode of Good Fruit, Good Root. I am one of your hosts, Kyla. And I'm Denise. The other host, the co-host, the pastor Emeritus, all of the titles. And so we're recording here today. If you happen to have listened to our introductory episode or our first posted episode, we are now coming to you nearly a year later, after having recorded those episodes. So we wanted to embark on this podcasting journey, and it's been a long time coming to have a regular scheduled recording process now, but I actually spoke it into existence from the pulpit that we were going to begin posting by the end of next week. And so now we're basically legally bound to this thing. Right. It's been spoken aloud from the pulpit, so we cannot renege, we cannot go back. And so here we are now this week because by the time that we are posting these, it will be Holy Week. Or we will be at the beginning of Holy Week. Maybe I'll post this as soon as we get done recording it. Who knows? There's no rules here. A good fruit, good room just yet. But we will be posting one further episode during Holy Week. And then after that, we'll get to our regularly scheduled programming where we'll be posting on Fridays. It's going to be our post days going forward. So if you are like, this is really chaotic and I can't keep up with this right now, don't worry. We're in the exact same boat as you. But after next week, we will be posting regularly on Fridays. So great to have you listening. Um, and we're we're really excited, aren't we?
SPEAKER_01Yes, we are. I'm excited to delve back into this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's been it's been a long time coming. So thank you guys for hanging with us. If you're someone that's been pestering us lovingly about this for a long time, this is for you. So shout out to Stephanie and all the members of the congregation here at New Life Fellowship. And now we're ready to go. So um, to commence this episode, we're going to do one of our recurring segments here, which is God wink of the week. So essentially, God wink of the week is something that either Pastor or myself uh will will testify that has happened in the past week that has made us feel like God is essentially winking at us, a reminder of his um sovereign and loving role in our lives. And so I'm up this week for God Wink of the Week. And for my God Wink of the Week, I am going to go with the fact that uh just this morning I randomly heard from two former students of mine. And I had just been thinking about them. They'd been on my mind, I'd been wondering what was going on with them, and uh they just called me randomly and uh they had a question for me, and we were able to speak for a few minutes, and then they asked if I was with Pastor here, and I told them that I was, and they're like, Well, make sure that she knows that we love her, and so it was just really, really nice to hear from them, and I was reminded of the biblical truth that you know God speaks to us through people, and people are his primary tool um and his primary mode and method of communication oftentimes. And so I was reminded of when Isaac goes searching for the manifest presence of God and he goes to Birlahi Roai because that is where God um appeared prior, and he doesn't find God there, instead, he finds Rebecca. And God had sent Rebecca to show Isaac his love, you know, in clothed in humanity. And so I just thought that that was a nice reminder that you know God God winks at us through people sometimes. Yes, he does, oftentimes even.
SPEAKER_01Yes, he does, and I'm excited because this ties in with some of what we'll be talking about tonight.
SPEAKER_00Oh, perfect. Look at that. Look at that. So so that is my God wink of the week. Um before we dive into our text and the theology that we're gonna be discussing today, the theological topic that we'll be delving into. Um, I did just want to just ask, how are you doing today?
SPEAKER_03Hey, I'm doing good.
SPEAKER_00You're doing good? I've had a good day. Had a good day. Me too. I've had a good day too. And part of the reason that I feel like I'm having such a good day is the momentous occasion that is today. Um, because today is opening day for Major League Baseball. We we've watched portions of games. I haven't actually sat down and watched a game from beginning to end, but we did get to see quite a few Juan Soto in facts. That's my son. I love Juan Soto. For those of you that don't know, Pastor Denise, she she claims Juan Soto as a son and has for many years now. He um he was on the nationals during my undergraduate studies at the George Washington University, so we were converted to Nationals fans because of him and Trey Turner and Anthony Rendon, and we were very involved in that World Series run. That was our first time attending a postseason uh MLB baseball game, it was for the NLCS for the Nationals that year. Um, and then we were actually front row the night they won the World Series. Uh there was a watch party at Nationals Park because they were playing at the Astro Stadium. Um so that that was really cool. But so we got to see Ju Soto take a couple of bats. Um, me personally, I'm a San Francisco Giants fan first and foremost, and my Giants took a loss last night. So here's hoping that we can maybe beat the Yankees. Uh, I think we played today, I think we played this evening, but um not really holding my breath uh on that one. But it is opening day. It is also in the world of sports news, we're in the midst of March Madness right now, and we've been we've been eagerly viewing March Madness, specifically women's March Madness. So sorry if you're a big men's March Madness fan. Um, there have been some exciting games on that side, but we we're really into women's basketball right now. Everyone watches women's sports, and we have been just very passionately consuming all things women's March Madness. And for the first time this year, I actually was able to convince Pastor to make a March Madness bracket. And so our family, we made brackets. We do have a wager going with the bracket. I will not tell you what the wager is just now. Listeners, you'll have to tune back in to see if we make good on whoever the loser in our family bracket challenge is. You cannot lose. Pastor's really committed to not losing. And right now, I I'm hopeful that dad is gonna lose. I really think that Kyle Purse will come out the loser here, but who knows? We'll we'll see. Virginia busted a lot of our brackets. Um, Virginia is somewhat of the Cinderella on the women's side right now. And so, in the interest of bracketology and making brackets and being in the midst of March madness, I've created a little game for us to play here at the top of this episode. I'm calling it biblical madness. I didn't really take time to come up with a more creative title. But essentially what I've done here is I have picked characters within the biblical narrative and have placed them, I've seated them and placed them in regionals, and we're going to debate and discuss if these two characters met in a physical fight. Who would win out of these matchups? Okay, and we will we will crown a champion of biblical madness. I mean, we could say if they met on a basketball court, but I think a physical fight is more likely that we could actually come up with an answer for that. So are you ready for this?
SPEAKER_03I hope.
SPEAKER_00So I'm gonna what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna we'll go through each regional, we'll get a winner from each matchup, and then we'll progress through the bracket until we crown a winner. So our first regional is the patriarch regional. Okay. Okay? And so within this regional, our matchups are Adam versus Abraham, Isaac versus Jacob, and Esau versus Judah. All right, so so we're gonna begin with Adam versus Abraham. If they were to physically fight, who do you have?
SPEAKER_01I have Abraham.
SPEAKER_00Why? I mean, you you said it so confidently and immediately I have Abraham, and I said, why? And you're just staring at me. There has to be a reason.
SPEAKER_01I will I have Abraham because I believe he's gonna be wise enough to to grapple and win. Okay. You know, Abraham's what? Probably 75 years old when he's wrestling with Adam.
SPEAKER_00Adam when he's wrestling with Adam as if this happened in the biblical text. And then Adam. Well, let's let's go ahead and say we're gonna take all of them at their physical prime.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_00So we're not gonna, they're not gonna be, you know, advancing. No, no, no, no, no. So they're all at their physical prime.
SPEAKER_01Okay. I'm st I'm still going with Abraham.
SPEAKER_00You're still going with Abraham. Here's here's my my caveat here. Um, I also think I'm gonna go with Abraham because I don't think that I don't think Abraham it's understood enough that he had to be a very physically strong guy. You know, he's he's digging wells in the midst of the desert constantly. Uh there there are times where you know military leaders are are in awe of him. Um, and so and you know, the the the dangers that he had to withstand traveling alone, you know, he came out of Ur and traveled in the midst of Canaan and went down to Egypt and all of these things. For him to survive all that, obviously I know that he has the anointing of God or the you know God is protecting him in the midst of all of this, but I I think he has to be a pretty physically imposing guy.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I just I feel like he has to be. Now, obviously, you know, he but he's fearful at times, but that doesn't mean that he's not physically strong. My caveat is the only way that I would go with Adam is if it's Adam prior to the creation of woman, when there's the possibility that Adam is like this mythologically looking figure that's very physically scary and imposing. Uh, but but beyond the splitting of the human into two beings, I'm gonna go with Abraham.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'm going with Abraham.
SPEAKER_00Alright, so we're in agreement that Abraham gets to advance from the first matchup of the Patriarch Regional. Uh next we have Isaac versus Jacob. I mean, that I think this one's pretty straightforward, right? Well, who are you going with? Obviously, I'm going with Jacob. I'm going with Jacob too. I no shade to my man Isaac. But of all the patriarchs, I'd visualize Isaac being the least physically imposing. So do I. I always have. I think it's because most of his narrative deals with him when he's so advanced in age and he's blind and you know, essentially fairly lame, like physically speaking. So I for that reason I've always pictured him just he seems the less the least masculine to me. Maybe it's because his authority is usurped by his wife in the narrative. That's actually really interesting.
SPEAKER_01It is.
SPEAKER_00That's something we need to delve a little bit further into. Yeah, the the masculinity of Isaac or lack thereof. But but then you also have him facing Jacob, who arguably is probably the most physically imposing of the patriarchs. I mean, he wrestles with God himself and manages to prevail. So we we have to go with Jacob. Yes, we do. Alright. Alright, so Jacob advances. And then I have Esau versus Judah.
SPEAKER_01Esau versus Judah.
SPEAKER_00This is a good matchup.
SPEAKER_01I know. Although I would like for Judah to win. I may have to go with Esau on this one.
SPEAKER_00I yeah, the thing with Esau is, you know, he's a hunter. He's very masculine. He's the picture of masculinity. And so and also, you know, Jacob, we just said Jacob, we picture him being very physically imposing. He's a renowned fighter, but he's terrified of his brother Esau. So I do think that I also think that Judah is a formidable opponent. I do. I think that of the sons of Jacob, Judah is the one I would least like to come to blows with for whatever reason. Um, but I do think the edge has to go to Esau here.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I do I do too.
SPEAKER_00All right, so we have Esau advancing. All right, so those are our victors out of our patriarch regional. We'll circle back to them after we get our other advancements. But next we're moving to the judges regional, or if you want to get really technical, this is the Deuteronomistic Histories regional, because there are a few people in here that are not technically judges, but they are characters in Deuteronomistic histories. And so our first matchup is Joshua versus Gideon.
SPEAKER_01I'm going with Joshua.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. And why?
SPEAKER_01Because of the way Gideon viewed himself.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So you think confidence is king? Yeah, I think, yeah. I agree. Also, I mean, if you make the the sun stand still, I think that it's pretty hard to bet against you. Um, I also am gonna go with Joshua. And again, no shade to Gideon. He is a formidable opponent in his own right, but yeah, just gut instinct immediately. I'm going with Joshua. I mean, he led the entire Canaanite conquest. How can you not choose him? Alright, next, Samson versus Moses. I did my guy Moses a little dirty.
SPEAKER_01You did.
SPEAKER_00Samson is the one seed and Moses is the sixth seed in this.
SPEAKER_01Samson before the haircut after the haircut.
SPEAKER_00That's the thing. You gotta think, is Moses crafty enough that he could cut Samson's hair? Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01Moses maybe. You know.
SPEAKER_00I'm go I'm going Samson. I love that we were both just trying to give Moses a little bit of credit there, but Yeah, we have to.
SPEAKER_03He was he was God's friend.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So, but Samson, we're rocking with Samson here. Okay. Samson, I feel like, is gonna be a difficult one to overcome further down the bracket, anyways. And then the final matchup in our judge's regional, Ehud versus Jael.
SPEAKER_01Really?
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01I'm going with Jael.
SPEAKER_00I am too, because here's the thing both of them require weapons.
SPEAKER_03Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00Right? Both of them, we don't know of EHUD's battle techniques, sands, his sword. Right? Like, and then Jael, you know, if she's got her tent peg, I'm rocking with her. Also, like, you know, female solidarity. She is the only woman that made the bracket. I debated putting Deborah in here, but uh, since Jael is the only woman in here, I'm I'm I'm at least letting her get past the first round. Okay. All right, now we move to our Jerusalem regional. Okay, these are people who either ruled or reigned in Jerusalem or served within their armies. So the first matchup, you had to have this matchup. It's David versus Saul.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I'm going with David.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because Saul has slain his thousands and David his ten thousands. Exactly. So it has to be David. Sorry to Saul, but also I'm not that sorry to Saul. All right, this next one's actually very interesting to me because it's a matchup of brothers. It's Joab versus Abisha.
SPEAKER_01I want to go with Abisha.
SPEAKER_00Why? Why? I'm not I'm not disagreeing with you. I just want to hear your reasoning.
SPEAKER_01Because uh I'm not too keen on Joab.
SPEAKER_00Fair, fair. Okay, but but here's military militaristically speaking, I think Joab has the edge on like strategy. I think Abisha has the edge on like individual fighting. Abisha, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't he the valiant man who killed 300 on his own? So for that reason, I mean Joab, Joab is responsible for a lot of high-profile deaths, but that's one-on-one. You know, we don't necessarily have biblical evidence that Joab could kill 300 at once. Uh and also, I agree with you that Joab, I wouldn't want to be, I wouldn't want to fight Joab, but I want to believe that Joab can be bested in battle. And so for that reason, all right, so we're gonna let Abisha advance. Sorry to Osai Hel, you are the only son of Zariah that did not make the bracket, but you do die tragically young, so you're not in here. And then the final matchup of our Jerusalem regional, we have Hezekiah versus Ahab. You want me to tell you my reasoning here? So Ahab famously falls on the battlefield, right? So that doesn't necessarily bode well for him in this matchup. But I cannot pick Hezekiah for this reason. Uh the siege of Sennacherib, Sennacherib famously inscribes that he has Hezekiah trapped like a bird in a cage in Jerusalem. And I just feel like if smack is talked against you across eons, like if we're still reading, if we're still reading the smack talk that someone was leveling against you, that you gotta come out on bottom, you know? So I'm and also Ahab, even though you know he does die on the battlefield, he's a nasty dude.
SPEAKER_03Yes, he is.
SPEAKER_00I don't I don't want to fight him. I don't think he'd fight fair. And you know, just because you ultimately die on the battlefield doesn't mean that you didn't also have victories preceding that. So I'm I think I'm gonna go with Ahab. What do you think?
SPEAKER_03I think Ahab. Yes.
SPEAKER_00All right, so we'll give Ahab the opportunity to advance there. All right, and our final regional, the New Testament regional, all right? First matchup Peter versus Paul.
SPEAKER_04Ooh.
SPEAKER_00You know, they argued a lot. Yeah, they probably physically did come to bloods.
SPEAKER_01They probably did. Um I may have to go with Peter.
SPEAKER_00Okay, why?
SPEAKER_01Uh Peter was he was scrappy. Okay. Um and Peter I just think he would run to the bike. Okay. Uh and I think he was a fisherman. He had to be he had to be strong and straight. And so I'm probably going with Peter, but I I could make an arcade.
SPEAKER_00I here's the thing, I I agree, but I also think that we have to bear in mind the life that Paul led while he was Saul.
unknownYes.
SPEAKER_00You know, if he's capable of m murdering, you know, multitudes of people, I I think that the case can be made, but I do think that the you know, post-paul's conversion, the way that they are described in the biblical text, I do think that Peter is more apt or prone to fight.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00And so for that reason, I think that you know, my gut instinct is that Peter would be the one that would advance here. But I would really like to see this one. You know, we we get their intellectual battle inscripturated. I would love to know what a physical battle between these two would look like. I don't think that we get to to fight in heaven, but if we do, I'm putting these two in the ring.
SPEAKER_01So then when you consider all that Paul went through physically and he kept on. But I but I do think Peter would win the fight.
SPEAKER_00We do have to give credit though, you know, Paul is a tent maker, and that would involve, you know, being being physically agile, but I do I I don't I'm gonna give the edge to Peter here. All right, next matchup, we have John the Baptist versus James, the son of Zebedee.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I don't want to be John the Baptist.
SPEAKER_00Okay, why?
SPEAKER_01Uh because he was he was a regular man, he was a wilderness, so he had to learn a lot of uh the survival tactics of living and existing in the wilderness. Those locusts and that honey, that just really probably beefed him up pretty good.
SPEAKER_00I I I'll give the edge to John the Baptist as well for the reasons you just listed. I did include James in here just because I don't feel like you get the nickname Sons of Thunder without being able to go. You know, I I think that if it comes if it comes to blows, that the Sons of Thunder can probably hold their own. But I do think that John the Baptist, you know, like you said, it's very rugged, a man of the wilderness. So so we'll give him the nod here. Uh on the theme of the Sons of Thunder, I did include John the Beloved. Which is funny because, you know, I think he's a lover, not a fighter. But I have John the Beloved versus Andrew here at the end. I'm probably going Andrew. I am also going Andrew because, as the brother of Peter, I think he grew up having to scrap constantly. So I'm gonna give him the edge. Alright, so we have that's all of our first round matchups. So now we have to continue to advance. So we're gonna go with Abraham versus Jacob.
SPEAKER_01Abraham versus Jacob.
SPEAKER_00I I mean only one physically wrestled in the text. That's right. And he wrestled with God. Yeah, so I'm gonna I'm gonna go Jacob. Okay. Is that are you in agreement there? Yes. Okay. Esau versus Joshua.
SPEAKER_01I'm probably going Joshua.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_01What are you thinking?
SPEAKER_00I I think that that one you can make the argument either way, but only one, you know, only one is a military leader that actually led like full national conquests. So we're gonna I'll go with Joshua as well. Alright, Samson versus Jael. I'm going Jael. Are you actually well? Here's the thing. She was lulling to sleep. Take him out. I think she she would lull him to sleep and cut his hair or kill him. Alright, if you're saying Jael, I'll I'll I'll agree with you. I'm kind of letting you do this round. So all right, so we'll take Jael. All right. And then we have David versus Abisha.
SPEAKER_01I'm going with. I'm going with David.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. I think I think you have to. I think Abisha would pick David. Yeah, I do too. So we'll go with David. Alright, then we have Ahab versus Peter. Okay. I'm going Peter. I am also going Peter. So if if I disagree with you, I'll interject, but I'm gonna let you just kind of roll through these. And then John the Baptist versus Andrew.
SPEAKER_01I'm going John the Baptist.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Alright, I won't disagree with you. So this brings us to our next round. So now we have Jacob versus Joshua.
SPEAKER_01I'm still going Jacob.
SPEAKER_00Okay, why?
SPEAKER_01Uh because like you said earlier, we know that he wrestled. He wrestled with God. He um I just think there's something in him. He's shrewd enough and uh that he's gonna he's gonna come out on top.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Alright, then we have Gile versus David.
SPEAKER_03I think this is where we have to let our fantasy David is gonna win.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, sorry Gile. You made it really far and we love you.
SPEAKER_01We'll probably hear about that one.
SPEAKER_00From who? Who's gonna write in and be like, you let Gile get too far? Absolutely not. Alright, and then Peter versus John the Baptist.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I'm going I'm going with John the Baptist here.
SPEAKER_00Okay, why? Interesting. Because I I would have I would have picked Peter, but let me do let me hear you out.
SPEAKER_01I'm going, I'm going with John the Baptist because I just think that there was uh an incredible str that he had such an incredible strength. Um and it came, you know, like we have already talked about his ruggedness and everything.
SPEAKER_00I just you think the wildness is gonna win out? Okay. Alright, so essentially we we have three tell me why you would have chosen Peter. I just think Peter has more of a temper. And I think that that as rugged and strong as I do believe John the Baptist was, I think he was more of a lover than a fighter. And so I think that when push comes to shove, I think Peter had a mean streak.
SPEAKER_01I I agree, I think Peter had a mean streak, but sometimes when people lose their tempers, they're careless in their actions.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_01And so I think John the Baptist, because you know he had he was a lover as well, I think that he was shrewd enough from what he learned in the wilderness to take Peter down.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Alright, so we have three remaining characters here. So basically we're gonna put them in a Hunger Game style situation. They're all three fighting to the death. Okay. We have Jacob, we have David, we have John the Baptist. Who do we think is emerging from that quagmire?
SPEAKER_01I really think David.
SPEAKER_00Okay, why?
SPEAKER_01Uh because David he was such a mighty warrior.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And the lion and the bear and Goliath.
SPEAKER_00So I just and David, you know, scripture testifies that he single-handedly vanquished tens of thousands of warriors in specific battles. So as much as Jacob wrestling with God directly is impressive, and as much as John the Baptist is, you know, a wild man, I do think, I think David has to take it, right? I do too. So David wins our biblical madness. Did you like that?
SPEAKER_01I did. I enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_00I I did not tell her ahead of time. I was like, I have a game, I'm not gonna tell you what it was, what it is, and I think that I think that it was topical. Uh, and I think it was fun. All right, so biblical madness 2026, David is the emerging victor. Alright, so now that we've you know talked about what's going on in the world um and what's on the the the physical and secular calendar just now, uh, we would be remiss if we didn't mention that we are moving into holy week on the spiritual calendar. Uh, we're moving into the week leading up to the celebration of Easter and the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ. And uh as part of moving into that week, we are actually um having foot washing here at our church. And I'm I'm very excited. For those of you who know me, you're aware that foot washing is my favorite sacrament. It's my favorite type of service that we do. We actually, uh two years ago, I believe it was for my birthday, we had a foot washing service. I'm probably the only person of whom that's true. Again, I don't have a foot fetish, I just enjoy foot washing. I think that it's such a special and significant spiritual practice that we get to undertake and that we get to, you know, act in the model of Jesus Christ as leaders in a church when we when we participate in a foot washing service. So it is impossible for us to contemplate foot washing or holy week at all without thinking about the the topic of sanctification. And I don't know about you, but I think I was thinking about this as we were talking about the fact that this is what we were going to record today. I think sanctification is the most important misunderstood topic to the church.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I would definitely agree with that.
SPEAKER_00There are a lot of things that I think you know modern American evangelical Christians do misunderstand, but I think that the most important thing that we widely misunderstand is sanctification. And so we are going to delve into the biblical text, of course, because that's what we do here. But before we do that, I wanted to just talk kind of generally about sanctification. And I felt like the the most natural place to start would be for us to talk about what sanctification is not. Would you agree? Yeah. All right, so what what is sanctification not in terms of what is it often misunderstood to be that it is not?
SPEAKER_01Well, growing up in the Church of God, um, I think we had a gross misunderstanding of sanctification and that we were taught years ago that it was a one-and-done ideal. It's an instantaneous experience and experience. And then as you study the scriptures, you come to realize that sanctification is something that you're that you experience throughout your entire Christian life. And so um I I I struggled with that being taught that it was instantaneous, and then later learning that it is ever you're you're being ever yeah, you're ever being sanctified.
SPEAKER_00Um have you ever gotten into debates with people over instantaneous sanctification versus the ongoing process of sanctification?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, years ago. Um, let's see, my grandfather, who was a church God pastor, um, he he was taught and believed it was instantaneous. And so um you had you were supposed to give testimony of when you were saved and when you were sanctified, and when you were full of the Holy Ghost and fire.
SPEAKER_00As if it was a checklist.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and so um I struggled with the I knew when I gave my heart to the Lord. Okay, I knew I knew when let's see, I experienced salvation. I I searched and sought out what they would call sanctification, and I never could put my finger on that, okay, when that happened. But then I know when I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, that's such a definitive moment, and I had a definitive moment of salvation and a definitive moment of receiving the baptism, but I did not have what was a definitive moment that I could say this is the moment I was sanctified, this is the moment that I was set apart, because in my brain, I was set apart when I chose Christ, and so um, but I think it was the way the people were taught in, and that's what that their expectation. But when you really um dive into scripture, you find out that there's no way sanctification can just be a one-and-done.
SPEAKER_00What I find very interesting is I have I've heard people make the claim that it's both, that it's instantaneous and a process, but the way that I've heard them try to explain that to me just confirms that it is a process. Because the explanation that I was given by a professor once was that uh this it's uh it was a male professor, and he was like, you know, when I first met my wife, I fell in love with her. But every day that we have been married, I have grown in my capacity to love her, and so I've fallen into a deeper love with her, and that's he likened that to sanctification, that there's the instantaneous experience of the I'm fall, I've fallen in love, and then there's the continuous process of growing in your love. But to me, anything that's a process, it it has an inception, it has a beginning point. That doesn't mean that it was instantaneous, right? Right? You're he he's continually growing in his capacity for love. We are continually, you know, walking the path of sanctification with Christ as our escort down this road. And so I uh I don't I know that this places me at odds with some people within our belief system, but I don't buy into the instantaneous uh that that sanctification is something that happens in an instantaneous experience. I do believe in having experiences that make you aware of the process.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00But I I believe it's always a process, and I think that interestingly, like I more so than some people had a definitive sanctification experience in the sense that you know I was saved at six years old, and then I I remember pursuing the baptism of the Holy Spirit because at that point I almost believed that it made me lesser of a Christian that I hadn't experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues, and so I was just really passionately pursuing that, and I didn't understand why it wasn't happening for me, and I remember there being a Sunday night service at Uningrove Church of God, where I was in a pew and it was we were having worship, you you were leading, and uh the song was um, oh, what's it called? He healed my body, he touched my mind, he said, Look what the Lord has done. Yes, look what the Lord has done. Um and I just remember essentially losing control of my limbs. Like I started, you know, just dancing before the Lord, and my legs were knocking in the pew, and I remember my cousin Hallie being like, Kyla, stop. And I'm like, I can't help it. I don't really know what's happening here. Um and I just I remember weeping and just having this really strong encounter with the Holy Spirit, but I did not speak in tongues and I didn't understand what was happening. And I remember um, I believe I was eight, I was eight years old at the time, yeah, because I was six when I was saved, eight when this happened, and ten when I experienced the baptism with the evidence of speaking in tongues. And I remember like asking afterwards and people telling me, like, oh, like that was that was sanctification, like you were sanctified. And it never set well with me because I didn't like the past tense of it. I it wasn't like I was like, that was it, you know, and so I like to think of it as I am constantly being sanctified, and I think that that's what the scripture attests to most profoundly is that we're being sanctified, not that we have been sanctified.
SPEAKER_01I remember um because all my life I had heard instantaneous. I too, I got saved at eight and received the baptism with the own just speaking in tongues at 10. Between eight and ten, I did have an experience, and it was a deeper move of God, it seemed, upon my life and upon my heart. And I I was told that that was sanctification, okay, and that's when I was sanctified. But um, when I went to the league, I remember sitting in my Christian thought class and a professor, we had a visiting professor one day, and he he came in and he totally lectured on sanctification. And it I remember this statement that he made. I know that I'm being sanctified, and I know that the Holy Spirit is at work within me when I can more clearly see Christ, and others can more see more clearly see Christ in me. And so when he gave me that definition, it was something that I you know I remembered it, I quoted it. But that um was the best explanation, the first real explanation that I had that I could grasp a hold of. And um, and I I thought, yeah, that is that's what sanctification is, is it's that ongoing work. I believe that sanctification begins at salvation. That's what I that's what I believe.
SPEAKER_00I I I agree. I think that um, you know, subsequent to a new birth, and so I as soon as I experience that new birth and I'm born again in Jesus Christ, I believe that he's at work within me, sanctifying me, making me holy, making me remaking me in his image so that I'm less like me and more like him. And so, yeah, I I think I do believe that people oftentimes, I don't I I think it I think that the experience with sanctification looks differently for different people. I don't think that necessarily everyone has what you and I just testified of of having a definitive experience wherein we're like, this is we're moving into a specific phase in our relationship with Jesus Christ. And we had moved into the phase prior, but I do think that those experiences with the Holy Spirit made us aware, like made us acutely aware of the reality that we were being sanctified. I don't believe that in that moment we accomplished sanctification, and so you you just gave a a definition of sorts of what sanctification is. You said that the the professor said it and you could grasp it for the first time. So you you've already provided that, but if you were going to try to explain to someone what sanctification is, is is that the phraseology that you would use?
SPEAKER_01Uh today I would probably say sanctification is being conformed to the image of Christ.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_01Being remade in his image and being conformed to his to his image. The um the old standard definition of sanctification, you know, is something that's set apart, set apart, um, set apart from sin. And then um, and you're moving towards righteousness and holiness and purity in Christ. And so that's that's kind of like the the old definition, but what I what what I have latched on to is that the process of sanctification is being becoming more and more like Christ. And we know scripture tells us it's the will of the Father that we all be conformed to the image of his son Jesus Christ. And so that's that's it's put simplistically to me.
SPEAKER_00I like that, and I like that you you took it a step further, you didn't just stop at set apart, because I feel like very often when people discuss sanctification, that's what they say is it it's being set apart, and an intrinsic part of being set apart is also being set toward something, right? If I'm being turned 180 degrees, now my face is towards something, and it's toward whatever was diametrically opposed to the thing that I was toward prior. And so if I was toward the things of the world, now that I have been set apart and I've turned, I'm now towards the things of Jesus Christ. Right. I'm I'm my priorities are in alignment with him. I'm facing, I'm thinking about his kingdom and not about the kingdom of earth. And so I just feel like a lot of times people stop short in providing their definition. They say, Oh, it's being set apart, being set apart from the world. Yes, it absolutely is, but more importantly, it's committing myself to him and conforming myself to his image and to his desires and to his heart. That's right. And so I think that that's really important. I me personally, my favorite definition of sanctification is one that I was given by a professor. Um, and it to me just it it emphasized the distinction between salvation and sanctification so perfectly because I do feel like they can become easily become conflated.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00Right? And I do think that they they work in tandem, they go hand in hand, right? Because we haven't actually defined salvation here, right? But you and I have talked extensively about salvation also being somewhat of a process. It has more of a definitive, instantaneous quality to it than I believe sanctification does. I do believe that you have an encounter with Jesus Christ, you know, you're drawn to repentance, you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, you confess your belief, and you're saved, right? But I also believe that I'm constantly being saved, that I'm progressing down the Via Salutus, the way of salvation, with Jesus Christ as my guide on this journey. And so it's not that I've just arrived and I'm perfected because that doesn't happen here, this side of eternity. And so as I progress down the Via Salutis, I think that sanctification is essentially the motor in my progression, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_03And that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00And so as as I am traveling down the way of salvation, sanctification is what keeps the wind in my sails and keeps me progressing forward. And so the way that this professor defined sanctification, um, she she drew drew these two distinct cleansings. And she said that salvation is cleansing from my own personal sin. Salvation is when Jesus Christ comes alongside me and washes me clean of the sins that I am directly responsible for. And then sanctification is the cleansing of the sin of being human. So salvation is Jesus cleansing me from the sins that I have committed, and sanctification is Jesus cleansing me from the sin of being human. And so every day I wake up and I'm still a human. And so there are things from which I need to be cleansed constantly. And so Jesus cleansing me daily, and every every day, you know, every day I wake up, I crucify my flesh, I die to myself, I take up my cross, and I follow him. That's sanctification.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00It's me dying to the sin of being human, and that there are just intrinsic things here on earth that naturally attach themselves to me, even though I am a Christian. There are things that I just am not have not entirely overcome because I exist here in this dark and broken world. And so, because of that, every day I need Jesus to cleanse me anew and afresh. And it doesn't mean that I have to get saved every day.
SPEAKER_03That's right.
SPEAKER_00But I need to be cleansed from my humanity daily, and so that's what sanctification is. It's the process of every day me surrendering to Jesus Christ and saying, remove my humanity from me, give me your heart, your eyes, your desires instead.
SPEAKER_01Right. And what's neat neat is in sanctification. You see all members of the Trinity have a part in sancti in the process of sanctification. Okay. The Bible tells us that we are sanctified in Christ. Okay, we're sanctified and we're redeemed in Christ. Okay. Well, the scripture actually says it says, but it is due to him, God, that you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God and righteousness and sanctification and redemption. So in Christ we have Righteous, you know, we've been made righteous. We have been and are being sanctified, and we have been redeemed. So I love that because it lets us know that in Christ is our sanctification. And then it also tells us that in John 17, 17, I love the scripture. It says, sanctify them by your truth. Your word is true. So we're sanctified by his word. We're being sanctified. If you read the word of God and you really allow the word of God to be the mirror that it's supposed to be, we will see our need for the ongoing work of his spirit and what we've got in Christ Jesus. And so I've got this is done through the Spirit operating in our lives, you know, and He's the one that leads us through the process of sanctification. Christ, Christ on the journey with us, Christ with us, we're in Christ. But the active part of the Trinity that is in within us, who's moving through us and eliminating true to us is the Holy Spirit. So I I love um seeing all of them at work within the process of sanctification.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's beautiful because so often I feel like when we think of the alignment of the Trinity, we think of salvation because we think of baptism, right? And baptism, of course, is the sacrament that mirrors physically what happens at salvation. And the the narrative of Jesus' baptism is where the Trinity is all physically present. But the fact that they're all physically present in the act of sanctification is really beautiful too. It's like we get we pull them into alignment in the midst of our relationship with each of them.
SPEAKER_01That's right.
SPEAKER_00So well, since you've already, you know, emphasized that the word is an intrinsic part of sanctification, uh, I think that now would be the perfect time for us to read our central text for for our topic of sanctification. So if anyone's trying to follow along with us, we will be in John chapter 13. John chapter 13, and you want to read for us? Sure.
SPEAKER_01All right. Now before the feast of the Passover, Jesus, knowing that his hour had come, that he would depart from this world to the Father, having loved his own, who were in the world, he loved them to the end. And during supper, the devil, having already put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, to betray him. Jesus, knowing that the Father had handed all things over to him, and that he had come forth from God and was going back to God, got up from supper and laid his outer garments aside, and he took a towel and tied it around himself. Then he poured water into the basin and began washing the disciples' feet and wiping them with a towel which he had tied around himself. So he came to Simon Peter. He said to him, Lord, are you washing my feet? Jesus answered and said to him, What I am doing you do not realize right now, but you will understand later. Peter said to him, Never shall you wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I do not wash you, you have no place with me. Simon Peter said to him, Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head. Jesus said to him, He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, otherwise he is completely clean, and you are clean, but not all of you. For he knew the one who was betraying him. It was for this reason that he said, Not all of you are clean. Then when he had washed their feet and taken his garments and reclined at the table again, he said to them, Do you know what I have done for you? You call me teacher and lord, and you are correct, for so I am. So if I, the Lord, and the teacher washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. For I gave you an example, so that you also would do just as I did for you. Truly, truly, I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who was sent greater than the one who sent him. If you know these things, you are blessed if you do them. I'm not speaking about all of you. I know the ones whom I have chosen, but this is happening so that the scripture may be fulfilled. He who eats my bread has lifted up his heel against me. From now on I am telling you before it happens, so that when it does happen, you may believe that I am He. Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who receives anyone I send receives me, and the one who receives me receives him who sent me.
SPEAKER_00Alright. So here we have, you know, what is often described as the Lord's Supper or the Last Supper. If you are one of my former students in children's church, it is the final dinner. That's what Haley always called it. But here we have Jesus at the final dinner at the Last Supper, and we have you know him, him instituting the sacrament of foot washing. And within doing so, and within specifically his dialogue with Peter here, we really are able to come to an understanding of what sanctification is, right? Because as I just said, salvation is modeled physically in the act of baptism, but sanctification is modeled physically in the act of foot washing. And we see Jesus revealing that here in his actions here at the Last Supper. So what jumps out at you in reading this scripture? So much, right? That's right.
SPEAKER_01Well, um, one of the things that I'd said earlier that when we got to this text, we would see um as we are becoming more like like Jesus, it's like we learn how to love more. And you see the theme of love throughout this. Okay. And so one one thing that jumps out to at me was when where it says he loved them to the end. He loved every one of them to the end. Even though he knew who was going to betray him. That's that's where I don't want to read. And if we kept reading, it becomes even you know more clear. But anyway, Jesus loved Judas to the end. Okay. And I'll tell you what, the longer I'm on my journey with him, and the more I pray that I'm becoming more like him, the more I'm finding within me the capacity to love those who don't love me. I find that on this journey I'm becoming more able to do what Jesus said when he gave us tough teachings. Where Jesus said, you know, pray for those who despitefully abuse you. You know, pray for them. We're we're to love our enemies. And this is this this chapter begins with Jesus. It's very clear that he loves the very one who's going to betray him. Okay.
SPEAKER_00And so and you you only are able to grow in that capacity to love through the process of sanctification, right? Through daily having an encounter with him whereby he cleanses you through daily turning yourself over to him entirely, withholding nothing from him, saying, Give me your heart. And so I I couldn't agree more. And I think that something that kind of gets glossed over, you know, it it's it's kind of become in vogue to emphasize that, you know, Jesus washed Judas's feet or Judas 8, 2, right? And those things are true. And I absolutely believe that we should emphasize those things because they've been glossed over historically in some ways. But I also think that it's important that we bear in mind Judas is not the only betrayer. That's right. Judas is the most obvious betrayer. He's the one that sells Jesus for profit, right? But everyone around this table, except for one, is going to either deny or forsake Jesus. There's only one person at this table that's following Jesus all the way to the foot of Calvary.
SPEAKER_03That's right.
SPEAKER_00And so Jesus is taking his time and washing the feet of people who are going to walk away from him. He's washing the very feet that are going to walk in the opposite direction in just a few hours. And that testifies of the miraculous love of God, right? That Jesus is so giving and so generous that he's spending his last hours with the people that are going to forsake him.
SPEAKER_03That's right.
SPEAKER_00And we in our humanity, we can't grasp that. We can't make sense of that. Because if we had the knowledge that all of them in in our hour of greatest need, they were going to turn their back on us, we wouldn't want to spend time with them, and we definitely wouldn't want to get down on our knees and wash the dirtiest part of them. That's right. And yet, you know, Jesus knows that's precisely what they need. That they need cleansing. That's right. And so that's what he offers. And it's just, it's, it's such a beautiful depiction of this is the love that Almighty God has for each of us because we've all forsaken him. We've all betrayed him. We've all turned and moved in the opposite direction. And so if he would do this for them, we know he does it for us as well. And that's that's what I love about the disciples. I, you know, I mentioned this in a sermon just this past week that the disciples are messy. They're not perfect, they're not even good most of the time, honestly. And so, but we get to see ourselves in them because of that. And so, you know, I've I've been Peter.
SPEAKER_03I have too.
SPEAKER_00I've been, you know, any any number of these disciples. Very rarely am I John. You know, and so I I I couldn't agree more that I think that this is just such a beautiful and moving display of the heart of Jesus Christ.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00All right, what else? I know you've got more. I I see that you have notes.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I do. Some of these notes are from a sermon on Sunday. Oh, you can't you can't give away all the materials. We will give away some of it, you know. But um Jesus said, I'm giving you an example. Okay. And I know I jumped down pretty far into the tags, but he's saying, if I will do this for you, you should do this for one another. You should take you should take the same action. You should be willing to love those who may walk away. You should be willing to um do the do whatever it takes. The low take the lowest position. Because that's one of the reasons he took him to he took his robe and set it aside. Yes. He wrapped the tile around him because he is he's saying that I'm putting putting aside what identifies me here, you know, and I'm I'm putting on the t the tile because I'm a serpent. And and we know Jesus, the Son of Man came to serve. And so one of the acts in his final hours is showing how just how low he will bow to serve humanity.
SPEAKER_00No, that is the the first thing within the text that really jumps out at me always is Jesus knowing that the Father had handed all things over to him and that he had come forth from God and was going back to God, got up from the supper and laid his outer garments aside, and he took a towel and tied it around himself. And as you just said, in removing his outer garment, he's removing anything that gives him stature or a title. He's removing anything that places him in any high position. Right. So that all that's left is a towel. All that's left is the mark of a servant, the mark of the one that's going to kneel down and cleanse their feet, right? But it's it's so important that the scripture makes sure to mention that he does this in light of the revelation and understanding that he is God and he is going back to God. And so God has given all things over to him. He has ultimate authority, he has ultimate power, he has ultimate dominion, he is the highest of highs, right? And he gets down to the lowest of lows. That is the most beautiful thing to me because here in this one action, in the fact that all things have been handed over to him, and then he lowers himself, that is the gospel. It is that is the entire gospel message of Jesus enthroned in glory, Jesus in the highest of heavens, rids himself of his outer garment, strips himself of the clothes of divinity and eternity, and steps down into the lowly station of being a human man.
unknownThat's right.
SPEAKER_00And so here we have in one action Jesus symbolically representing the entirety of the message of his love for humanity. That I rid myself of what was on the outside and I lowered myself to a humble station so that I could serve you.
SPEAKER_01Right. It's it's it's a it's a beautiful picture. Of course, you know, right now I'm thinking um that he emptied himself of deity. That's what's setting the setting the rope as aside is, and he humbled himself and became obedient. Even to the point of death, even to the point of death, death on a cross.
SPEAKER_00And we see that here that he, you know, he's in Jerusalem observing the Passover, and in a few hours he will be walking the Via della Rosa, he will be heading to the cross, and so he certainly has the cross on his mind, but he has service on his heart. Exactly. So that's you know, so I I mentioned this uh in the sermon on Sunday of when time becomes a scarce commodity, right? When time is limited and of the essence, what do we want to spend our times doing? You know, so many people have bucket lists, so many people have you know things that they want to check off. If we knew that we only had a few hours left, would we spend those hours in service to our enemies?
SPEAKER_01It would not be human nature to do so. It's against human nature to do that, and that's why he came, okay, and showed us how we should live and how we should be and how we should treat others in myself Denise person. No way. I know I know who I was before Christ. Okay, I pray that I when I if I knew I was exiting this earth body, this earth tabernacle, I pray that that's exactly what I would do. That I would I would pray for my enemies and I would serve those who would despitefully use me and those who would hate me, those who would speak against me. I pray that I won't be so trivial at the end of this life that I've been given, that I get so wrapped up with the things that have been designed to hurt me or bring me down that I can't love those around me. Because you know, this year the theme is generosity and how generously he has loved us. And he says to us, love one another. By this, people know your mind by the way you love, but it doesn't mean just love the people like you, right?
SPEAKER_00It means love everybody for God so loved the world, no exceptions, no exclusions, that's exactly right, the entirety of the world. And the reality is only a radical, seemingly senseless, unconditional love like this can bring transformation to the hearts of the enemy.
SPEAKER_01That's right.
SPEAKER_00Because the reality is that it it is the love that Jesus constantly showed to these disciples that will ultimately reconcile them to him.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00And so it is the service, it is the love that's poured out in this manner. They might forsake him now, but ultimately they will be able to stand with immense faith because they knew him and they knew him through expressions of his love. That's right.
SPEAKER_01And we'll talk about this one day. But the extent that he went to to meet Peter where Peter was on the other side of the cross.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we might have to do that one after Holy Week. That might have to be our next one. Because I have then you know that's one of my favorite stories to teach.
unknownYes.
SPEAKER_00All right, so after Jesus rids himself of his outer garment, lowers himself, he pours the water in the basin and begins to wash the disciples' feet, and then we get his dialogue with Peter. Yes, right? Peter is the everyman here, right? Because Peter's like, Why? Why are you doing this? Lord, you're washing my feet. Um and here we this is where we get the testimony of sanctification within the Lord's Supper, right? Right, within the washing of feet. So what is it within this dialogue that Jesus and Peter have? How does it reveal to us sanctification?
SPEAKER_01Well, um, where he says, If if you if I do not wash you, you have no place with me. Okay, and then Simon Peter said to him, Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head. And Jesus said, He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, otherwise he is completely clean. And you are clean, but not all of you. Okay, and so what Jesus, this is a reference, I believe, to baptism. Okay, Peter, you've been you've been baptized. You have um your you know, your head's been washed, you've been washed, and so the part of you that needs to be washed will be your feet. And you know, I love I love it. Um, I got this revelation in Christian thought. Um, I had a professor who visited Dr.
SPEAKER_00Was this Dr. Chris Thomas? Dr. Chris Thomas. Yeah, we we both have had the wonderful experience of getting to learn about sanctification under Dr. Chris Thomas. And what was it Dr. Chris Thomas said?
SPEAKER_01Okay, let me say this. Growing up, they would have foot washing services, and I really didn't understand it. I would hide behind the chairs. You didn't want people touching your feet. I had long toes, or any parents said I had boats. But anyway, I would I would kind of peep, you know, around and see what was going on, but it was something that I didn't want to be a part of until Chris Thomas came into the classroom and he began to explain what foot washing actually means and how it is the washing away of those he called it the incidental sins that you pick up just by treading through this life as a human. Yeah, the the the sin of being human, the sin of being human, and so you're gonna you're gonna come in contact with this world because you're walking through this world. And so and it's your feet by which you walk, and so that's why your feet must be cleansed. And he gave this simple illustration. He said, when you get out of the tub or you when you get out of the shower, what's the first thing that makes contact with the earth? Yes, it's your feet. And so that's the thing that's gonna accumulate uh residue and stuff. And so foot washing is symbolic of those sins being washed away during your walk, your walk down the salutes, your walk through this life. That's what it is. It's the washing away of those incidentals that you encounter just because you're human.
SPEAKER_00Right. I think that this perfectly ties in with the definition that Dr. Karen Hawley gave of you know, salvation is the cleansing from your personal sins, and then sanctification is cleansing from the sin of being human, the sin that you accumulate by virtue of just moving through this fallen world.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00And so, you know, once you are baptized, if if we have to understand that baptism here is being used as a way of discussing salvation. So once you've been baptized, once you've experienced salvation, once you've begun your journey down the Via Salutis, the way of salvation, you do not have to get re-saved. Right, you do not have to be re-baptized. Re-baptism is not something that is ever required or even discussed in scripture because there is salvific efficacy in baptism. It is, it is, it is accomplished in salvation, it is accomplished in baptism. If someone has a personal conviction and desires to be re-baptized, I don't think that there's anything wrong with that, but it is not required by scripture. And so, you know, we we talk a lot about rededication and we're even re-salvation is a concept that comes up within evangelical Christianity. And the reality, as attested to in scripture to me, is that you do not have to be re-saved. When you are saved, and you begin, if we're if we're continuing with the metaphor of the road, you begin walking down the road, the way of salvation. You can stop your forward progress down the road. You can stop the process of being sanctified, you can no longer daily turn. Yourself over in submission to Christ. But that does not mean that suddenly you're off the road. You're still on the road. You just stopped your forward progress. Now, are there things like apostasy, the sin that leads to death? Yes. But separate from that, you're still on the way of salvation. Again, you've just stopped your forward momentum. And so sanctification, as typified by footwashing, shows us we don't have to have our head recleansed. We don't have to have our hands re-cleansed. But we do constantly need to be recommitted to our conformity to Christ. So that every day I do hand myself over in submission. And I say, less of me and more of you, Jesus. And that's the means by which I continue to progress. And so here we see Jesus in talking to Peter when he's saying, You just need your feet to be cleansed. You don't have to be reintroduced to me, Peter. And it's so beautiful that he's saying this to Peter because Peter is about to deny him. Peter is about to forsake him. And you know, there are those who would probably say that Peter needs to be resaved. Peter needs to be recommitted. Peter had a sincere revelation of Jesus Christ. He does not have to re-experience that, but he does have to daily continue to grow in his relationship with Jesus Christ. And it's just so beautiful that, you know, Jesus is so loving and so gracious and so generous. He doesn't just leave Peter.
SPEAKER_03No, he doesn't.
SPEAKER_00Like imagine if when Peter stopped making forward progress, Jesus was just like, okay, and left him where he stopped. Right. But Jesus doesn't do that.
SPEAKER_03No, he doesn't.
SPEAKER_00He continues to pursue Peter. He continues to love Peter. And eventually Peter get uh he re- uh he reconvenes his forward momentum.
SPEAKER_01Right, he does. And what's so so beautiful is that Jesus doesn't leave him. If somebody quit walking with us on our journey and they left the road or whatever, what we would have a tendency to do in our humanity is just ride them off. You know, say they're gone. They mean nothing to me. That's the human experience. That's what we do. Okay. But what we see is so because we do that, a lot of times we expect Jesus to do that to us. Jesus ain't us.
SPEAKER_00It's so funny we expect Jesus to act in our image when in fact we were created in his image. But we get it backwards. We do. We think he's gonna behave the way that we as humans behave instead of trying to hold ourselves to the standard of how he as Jesus would behave.
SPEAKER_01Uh-huh, exactly. And so I love it because that's part of what I feel like he's trying to communicate here with this example is you know, don't don't leave. Don't don't leave, don't forsake. Walk it out in love.
SPEAKER_00I know, and so and if you mess up, there there is a method by which you can continually be cleansed. Exactly. And so it's not that you go back to square one, it's not that you have to start over, it's not that all the progress that you have made is suddenly non-existent, it's still there.
SPEAKER_03Exactly.
SPEAKER_00It's just you gotta re-engage the motor, you gotta turn it back on. And it is impossible for us to make this point without me being reminded of one of my favorite moments in the old testament that I feel like typifies Jesus Christ and the way in which he walks with us. And this is it's such a it's such an interesting statement to make, but I genuinely believe that Esau is one of the greatest examples of Jesus Christ, and I'll tell you why. Because after Jacob has his encounter with the divine being and he wrestles all night and his hip is wrenched out of socket, the next morning he comes face to face with his brother with Esau. And he had been terrified of meeting Esau. This is why he was alone at the Jabak to wrestle with the divine being to begin with, is because he was terrified of coming face to face with his brother because he knew his brother had every right to be angry with him and every right to seek retribution, and he was convinced that Esau was going to kill him because he had betrayed him and stolen his birthright. And Esau comes face to face with Jacob, and when he has every right to meet him with anger and retribution, instead he greets him with a holy embrace. He hugs him, he kisses him, he looks down, he takes note of Jacob's injured hip, and he says, Let us go on our journey. I will proceed at your pace. And how can you read that and not conclude that that's an example of Jesus Christ? Because Jesus is our brother who had a birthright that was entirely his own, and we essentially, you know, we're we're essentially robbers. We're not worthy of it, and yet it's been bestowed upon us. And who could blame him for looking at his birthright and saying, why are they getting this? But he that's not the way that he treats us. He meets us with a holy embrace, he extends his arm, he hugs us, he kisses us, and then he says to each of us individually, let's go on a journey together. I'll walk at your pace. Exactly. Whatever our pace may be. And Peter's pace, Lord knows he had a lot of false starts. And so do we, oftentimes. You know, we don't get it right. But he knows that we are human, he empathizes with our humanity because he came and experienced what it was to be a human man and he walks alongside of us and he never gets resentful or frustrated. See, I feel like that's an image that some people have gotten of God that if they're not making enough progress in their spiritual maturity that he's almost vindictive or upset, and that's not the case. He's he's just so joyous to be on the journey with you. That's right. He loves you so much, he's glad he gets to walk with you.
SPEAKER_01It was for that, that joy, the joy of the journey with us that he endured the cross despise the shame, and is right now seated at the right hand of God the Father, praying for us. The joy of the joy of the journey.
SPEAKER_00The joy of the journey, yeah. Yeah, and it's I mean, it's it's just so miraculous that this is what Jesus chooses to again to spend his time on. The way that he chooses to spend his time is sitting in heaven escorting us, walking alongside us. Yeah, which is I mean, what a beautiful concept. So, all right. So, do you feel like we've adequately covered the dialogue here? Did you have something else you wanted to say?
SPEAKER_01No, I think we've adequately covered the dialogue.
SPEAKER_00Okay. And then so then we find that immediately after this conversation, after Jesus explains, you know, I don't have to wash your head, I don't have to wash your hands. He who's bathed needs to only wash his feet, otherwise he's completely clean, you were clean, not all of you. For he knew the one that was betraying him, it was for this reason. He said, Not all of you are clean. Then when he had washed their feet and taken his garments and reclined at the table again, he said to them, Do you know what I have done to you? All right, so before we continue on, I have to make note here because you know, at the at the outset of this chapter, we find out that they are observing the Passover, right? And we we have conducted Passover services quite a few times now, and so you're aware of this, but I don't know how many of our listeners are. The idea of reclining at the Passover table is important and it holds uh a symbolic significance because you recline at certain points within the meal to symbolize the liberation of the Jewish people, right? You recline to reflect the fact that they were free, free to behave however they they chose because they were no longer under the penalty of slavery. Right, right. So when Jesus reclines here, it makes no note of where they are in the Passover Supper, which leads me to believe Jesus is reclining here not to look back at the liberation that came through the Exodus, but to prophetically anticipate the liberation from the penalty of the slavery of sin that he is about to bring. Because he doesn't wait for the point in the meal when it's choreographed, now we recline. As soon as he has finished cleansing them, he reclines because liberty has been accomplished through the cleansing work of Jesus Christ. And so no one has to has to sit under the rigid penalty of sin or slavery anymore because Jesus Christ has brought the ultimate liberation. Right. So I just think that that's that's such a beautiful thing. And so then we here we get Jesus offering the instruction of if I, the Lord, your teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. For I gave you an example so that you also would do just as I did for you. Truly, truly I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who has sent greater than one who sent him. If you know these things, you are blessed if you do them. All right. So here we get Jesus, you know, saying quite directly that foot washing is something that we are to continue as his church. Right. Right? That this is an example that he provided, but it's something that we are to continue. And I think it's very interesting because this tends to be the sacrament that people skip over. Right. Because it is it intrinsically is a little bit awkward, right? So why do why do you think it's so important that Jesus directly says that we are to continue to do this?
SPEAKER_01I think I think because of what it represents. Okay, and I think it's because we need to always be aware that we're here as service. What it represents because of what it represents as far as the cleansing, that we're all we are constantly in need of cleansing, but it's also important a reminder that we're here to serve one another, to love one another. As Christ has loved us, so we ought to love one another. And as Christ took the position of a servant, we need to take that position for one another. And the thing is, I think it's uh I'm not sure which version it is right now, but one version says, blessed are you if you do this. It's almost the same language as the Sermon on the Mount where blessed or happy are you if you do this. You will you will what that means is you will have a fulfilled life, a fulfilled life if you will take the position, the low position of a sermon. So many times we feel like we have to make a make a position for ourselves. But Jesus' teaching shows us that if we will take the position of the lowest, the lowest position, that he will exalt us in due time. We don't have to make our seat. Okay, he'll make a seat for us, he'll take care of all of that.
SPEAKER_00Isn't it incredible just how little we have to do? Oh, yes it is. Because he has he's accomplished it all. And so, but we there are things that are required of us, which this verse emphasizes. But before I I get to that, I did want to ask on the subject of you know Jesus, Jesus imploring us that this is something that this is an action we are to undertake as believers. Do you think that it is significant and important that it is inherently a little bit awkward and it is uncomfortable?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I I do think it, yes, you know, because um as humans, we just want to do what we're comfortable with, okay. And with this dealing with our humanity, okay, and uh the human the experience of being human, I think that the the fact that it it feels awkward, it it requires something of us. It requires us to to us through that awkwardness in order to serve. Honestly, a lot of things that we do for Christ are they're awkward, okay? And when we feel awkward, a lot of times we'll just back off and we won't do it. I think that's why the church neglects us. I think pastors shy away from this because they know it's gonna make their people feel awkward, and people will not want to do it. But I think that you know, because we love him, because we want to obey him, because we want this this blessing, and then we bless through the offerness, and then what we find, if you will pay that price, if you'll bless through that offering, you'll find that you will be involved in one of the most into the pure worship services that you've ever experienced in your life, because we are literally following his final example to us.
SPEAKER_00No, I I completely agree. I think that service and submission are naturally uncomfortable, right, but they're supernaturally gratifying.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00And so it being uncomfortable is I think part of what makes it so powerful because you you understand, not obviously not in in its entirety, but on some level, you're you're meeting Christ in the midst of what he what he experienced, right? Which the the process of becoming human and living, like what is a more human experience than embarrassment? What is more intrinsically human than awkwardness, you know, and so the experience of embracing that readily, I think also allows you the opportunity to be conformed to to Christ.
SPEAKER_03I do too.
SPEAKER_00Because I don't think that I think that the disciples were probably looking at each other being like, what's going on here? You know, Pete Peter, Lord, you're you're washing my feet. Like I imagine the tone of his voice is entirely incredulous, you know. And so I don't know that I in fact I do know that it was not a comfortable position for Jesus to be in, but Jesus readily embraced it. And I think, like I said, even though it's naturally uncomfortable, it's supernaturally gratifying because if you push through all of the alarm bells in the natural, being like, don't do this, it's it's gonna be weird, people are gonna look at you funny. Oftentimes that's where you find the most gratifying experiences.
SPEAKER_01Yes, you find the most gratifying and sometimes the most friggin' experiences.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, I I agree. Um, so Jesus says, and I think that this I I always seize on this particular verse when dealing with this passage, if you know these things, you are blessed if you do them. And I I just said a moment ago, and I it's not this is not paradoxical, but I do know that I just said a moment ago that it's it's incredible how little we have to do, right? And so when Jesus does explicitly state that there are things we have to do, I think it makes them all the more important, right? Because He He did everything, He accomplished everything. And there's so few things that He leaves to us that are action-based. But I think that sometimes we as Christians cheapen things by acting as if there's nothing required of us. Um, and you know, Mart Martin Luther and I would probably have a very hearty debate about this because, you know, faith without works is dead. And I think that the reality here is that sanctification is really the part of our journey with Christ that does require something of us. Salvation requires nothing of me. Salvation is just me believing. There's no there's no true action on my part because the reality is once I'm having a revelation of Jesus Christ, the natural response is for me to confess his lordship, right? And so really nothing is required of me. But sanctification requires me to pursue a relationship with Jesus Christ, it requires me to daily say, I'm submitted to you, none of me, all of you, right? And so sanctification intrinsically is synergistic. It's me and Christ and the Holy Spirit all working together.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00And so because of that, it it requires something of me, it requires more of me than salvation. And so I just think that it is a trap of Christianity sometimes for us to believe that we don't have to do.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00And and we do, it is required of us, Jesus says here, that knowing is in our brain, but doing it's in our actions, but I think that our actions testify of what's in our heart, right? Not just what's in our brain.
SPEAKER_01So I I fully agree with you there. Um one of the things that we when we just want to have everything free, you know, and grace and salvation is free. Okay. But we set if we can just hang out with that, then we set aside the crucifixion of the flesh. Okay. And you've already said you've already quoted the scripture. I must uh each day take a cross, the cross and and follow it daily is the crucifixion of the flesh. The only way I can become like him being made into his image is if I'm crucified that part of my life. So that is doing. Okay, but you're exactly right here when you're saying, you know, he said you know and you do because your actions are a clear reflect reflection of your heart. When we know and we do and we have it in our heart, our body and our soul and our spirit come into an alignment. Okay, and that's a that's just an incredible thing because two of people, what they know in the brain, what they believe in their heart, and what they do, a lot of times none of them are really in alignment with each other. He said, if you know this and you do it, okay, and I believe in the doing there. If you're gonna do that, if you're gonna get down and you're going to wash a nasty gnarly feet, okay, if you're gonna get down and do that, you've got to believe that in your heart, you've got to have it in your heart. So I think that is uh the body, soul, and spirit come into an alignment.
SPEAKER_00It's it's interesting then because you made the point earlier that sanctification pulls all three members of the trinity into alignment, and then you know we know that we are created in the image of the Trinity as a whole, so we are body, soul, and spirit. And so it's interesting that sanctification is a process that not only pulls all three members of the Trinity, but pulls all three aspects of us as humans into alignment. Exactly. Because if if we are being sanctified, then we believe in our brain, we feel in our heart, and we testify through our actions of who Jesus Christ is. So that's that's incredible. All right, so I have I have a question for you as a pastor. Okay. So what do you say to the person who just seemingly cannot get over the awkward aspects of foot washing? How would you how would you speak to them? How would you counsel them about the importance of the sacrament?
SPEAKER_01Well, I think um one of the reasons some people don't want to get beyond the awkwardness is they do not have the understanding of what it represents and what it means. And when you grasp that, it's something that you really want to be a part of. So I try to make sure that uh different times throughout the year as I'm teaching or preaching, I try to bring it out and and in my teaching, especially on Wednesdays and that kind of stuff, I try to really bring it out and bring it home and remind people of what it is and what it means. Because like I said, when you get the revelation, then you'll want to, you'll want to participate. You may have to go get your pedicure.
SPEAKER_00I would love I would love to know the uptick in pedicures in members of this congregation before Sunday. Right.
SPEAKER_01But if someone came to me in my office and we talked, you know, um I would explain sanctification to them and I I would explain it pretty. Much as we have today, you know, and I would explain about the simplicity of washing away the incident, you know, those sins that just by being human and the human experience. And um that part, because I jumped ahead earlier, I would tell them Jesus said blessed if he did. And um one thing that you brought out today that was so important is that there was you know Jesus, there were certain things that he said to do. Okay. We're to follow him in baptism, we're to follow him and uh foot washing of the feet. Yeah, we had those sacred things.
SPEAKER_00It's it's sorry to interject, but it's very funny to me that no one neglects the sacrament of communion, right? Everyone wants to do that in remembrance of him. But I think that communion and footwashing go hand in hand. Oh, I do too. Look, look what's happening here.
SPEAKER_01It's all in one sitting right here, okay? And so uh I I agree. And you know, you will have people that get upset if you don't offer communion often enough. But but hardly ever is someone coming. You'll see all the people staring at each other and you'll know from the pulpit who's coming.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Has has anyone ever knocked on the door of your pastor study to be like, we haven't done a foot washing? No. I've only had one person. Is it me? Yeah. I do, I love it, I love it. And I I do think that what I would say to someone is is much like you just said, you know, I would explain the significance to them, hoping that the revelation of what it symbolizes would soften their heart and make them ready to partake of it. But I think I would just tell them, you know, Jesus isn't gonna love you any less if you don't take part in this, right? But you are going to understand his love more if you do. It doesn't increase the amount of love he has for you, but it does increase your understanding of the love he has for you. And the love that you are mandated to have for others, the love that he typified for you so that you can have for others.
SPEAKER_01And I'll tell you just that that personal intimate experience with him that I have had every time I have participated.
SPEAKER_00And you know, I always say, if you want to change somebody Well, you know, it's interesting you use the word intimate right there. Intimacy is inherently awkward. And so I think that I I don't think it's accidental that this is a little bit awkward because it's ushering us into a special intimacy with Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_01I I agree. So always say piggies are intimate. Yeah, piggies are those you love. Okay, but we're called hopefully we love everybody in our in the family, but we're called to wash the thing of those weird, wouldn't necessarily go around and take with their babies.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that's I tell you, a full washing service will have you looking at everyone in a different light. And it it invites, you know, uh us as ministers, it invites us to be in submission to people that you know, we we naturally we we already are in submission to them within the offices of pastor, but they're not people that you necessarily would readily and excitedly get on your knees and wash their feet, but you do, and in the atmosphere of the service, it gives you an entirely different heart for them. It does because it gives you Jesus' heart for them, and he's revealed in it and he reveals them to you.
SPEAKER_01It's like he he shows you reveals things to you, he helps you pray for them that you watch it. He prays things to bring you that you didn't realize it's like you see them differently because you see them differently.
SPEAKER_00All right, is there anything else in the in the biblical passage or about sanctification or the sacrament of footwashing before we move to close this out?
SPEAKER_01I don't think so.
SPEAKER_00You think we've we covered it?
SPEAKER_01Okay, I think we covered it pretty well.
SPEAKER_00All right, well, before we we close, um, we have one last segment that we have to do here, and this is the segment we call priceless pulpit. It's a moment where we take turns sharing something that's happened while we were in a pulpit setting that that was priceless. It can be funny, it can be you know revelatory, it can be any number of things, but it's something that we'll never forget that happened um in a pulpit. And so you're up this week because I did it most recently.
SPEAKER_01Yes, I am up this week. And the my priceless pulpit moment that I'm going to share today didn't happen to me. It happened to my grandfather. I mentioned him earlier, but it happened to him, and I happened to be about nine years old. I know nine years old when this happened. My grandfather had built a new church uh in Tipton, Georgia. That's now the Avenue, Tipped Avenue Church of God. And when I was growing up, we had baptismal services in creeks and rivers, okay, and ponds, and so but this new building had a baptismal, and so my grandfather was uh listening, it was probably in the first or second baptismal service in this baptism, and so he had a lot of people who wanted to be baptized, and this one lady stepped up into the baptism and she had her hair all fixed so nice and everything. And my grandfather in his pastoral ministry uh called her name and said, I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. And when he took the woman under the water and brought her up, her hair floated off in the baptism. Oh and I'll never forget we talk about Albert.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01My grandfather's expression, like that his expression, that moment is will be forever embedded in my memory. And you knew this man who looked like he had it all together, he didn't know what to do in that moment. So, what does he do? He reaches over, grabs the wig that's floating off in the pool, and slaps it on her head and helps her walk out of the pool.
SPEAKER_00I mean, my goodness.
SPEAKER_01So I I I had to share this with you today.
SPEAKER_00Gives like a whole new meaning to she's dying to the old self. The wig must have been part of the old self. It was going away in the running waters. So wow. I don't know that I've heard that one before. Yeah, I was I was anticipating that like the hair was gonna be flattened or just a bunch of bobby pins were gonna come out or something. I didn't know that the entirety of the hair was gonna be swept downstream. So that's all right, that's a good one. So I'm I'm up next week. Up next week, and it won't even be next week because we'll have an episode coming out here shortly in just a few days' time. Um we will have an a new episode out by next Saturday, at least, because the one further episode that we're going to be doing during Holy Week deals with what it was that Jesus was doing on Saturday between crucifixion and resurrection. A personal pet peeve of mine is when you see timelines of Holy Week and they claim that Jesus was resting or doing nothing on Saturday. Rest is a holy thing, it's something that God, you know, He set the example for us to rest. But on Saturday of Holy Week, Jesus was not resting.
SPEAKER_01That's right.
SPEAKER_00Jesus was doing something that was incredibly important, and it is one of my absolute favorite things in scripture to exume, examine, and teach. And so that's what we will be discussing in our forthcoming episode. So be on the lookout for that. It will be coming out prior to Saturday of Holy Week. And then, as I said, beyond that, we'll begin posting regularly on Fridays. Feel free to reach out to us via social media or our podcast website if there are any theological topics or passages of scripture that you would like to see us delve into. Um, but I'm just really excited to be doing this with you, Nisi. This was really fun. So I hope that our listeners are enjoying it. We're long-winded, even more so than we are in the pulpit, but it was all good stuff today, I think. Yeah, I loved it. I did too. All right, so we will see you next time on Good Fruit, Good Root. Until then, shalom.
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