Introduction

Enjoy an introduction to hosts Kyla and Denise in this special episode! Learn their nicknames, testimonies and favorite passages of scripture, as well as the recurring segments they have planned for the pod!

*Note: this episode was recorded nearly a year prior to publishing*

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Shalom everybody and welcome to our introductory episode of Good Fruit, Good Root. I'm Kyla. And I'm Denise. And it's just frankly, I'm ecstatic to have this outside of my notes app and my text message thread with you here, Mom, that we're actually putting voice to recording and actually putting this out into the universe. Yeah, this this is exciting for me too, Boo.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

This is something that we've kind of worked.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Whoa, we're like 26 seconds in and you've already dropped the boo. Oh, I'm so sorry. Do we need to stop? It's okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

It's okay. Uh I call Kyla, Kyla Boo. She's my daughter. I'm Denise, and uh Kyla's my daughter, and we are just jumping on here doing something that we've been asked to do, and it's something that's been a long time forthcoming. And we're kind of excited to be here doing this.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Yeah, it certainly has been a long time coming, and it sounds a little bit prideful to say it's been widely asked for, but I mean that is the reality that we're dealing with here. We've had quite a few people express interest that this is something that they would like for us to do, to be able to listen to. Uh, so just to provide just a little bit of background information, my mom actually was ministerially my boss for three years, and so she was the lead pastor and I was the associate pastor. I was a Nepo baby as most uh up-and-coming ministers tend to be in our denomination. I worked for my mother, and it was the most incredible experience to be able to learn ministry from someone who I knew their heart and their spirit so intimately, and so to be able to glean in that capacity was just really incredible. And during those three years, are you crying? No, I'm not crying. That's just you're tearing up just a little bit. And during those three years, uh the congregation to whom we ministered more than weekly got very accustomed to hearing us play off of each other, to hearing us teach scripture to and with each other. And so now that vocationally I've been away from you for a year, this is a request that we've gotten throughout the year that people have have missed this. There's a void in their life uh where they previously had gotten used to hearing us bounce off of each other. And so, because of that, and then because of individuals that we know from other areas and times in our lives coming up to us and expressing interest in this, uh, we we did want to begin this journey of podcasting. And also selfishly, like, this is just something that I want to have because I would like to have our conversations recorded. Frankly, one thing I'm excited about is to see how our perspectives on things maybe evolve and grow throughout the course of these discussions. So to just have this recorded for me to be something that I can look back on one day and have your voice and my voice together in tandem. I just think okay. Are you getting rid of me or something? Please don't hang around for a little while. We're just starting this podcast burning. I would like to have you around for a few at least a few fruitful years here for us to record this. No, you uh you gotta be on the smokers label. You know, Mama Golden left me high and dry with that one. For those that don't know, uh, my great-grandmother lived to be 98, and I always wanted her to be 100 so that she could be on the smokers label. Um, so someone, one of the matriarchs in our family's gotta do that for me. That's right. With my health, it's probably not gonna be made. It's your diet. It is my diet. For those of you that don't know, I eat a grilled cheese sandwich a day and call it call it good. That's pretty much, yeah. So now that we've outed me as Boo and as someone with a terrible diet, uh, I do think that it would be in our best interest for listeners who maybe don't know us personally to just kind of give a very brief introduction to ourselves. So would you like to go first or do you want me to go first? Well, you go ahead. You're talking. Oh, okay. All right. Um so for those of you who don't know me, my name is Kyla. Um, a biography for myself that I often use is that I am a Southern evangelical pastor's child, turned youth pastor, doing her best to live up to precisely zero of those stereotypes. So I was raised in a pastor's home. Um my mother had a lot of different ministerial vocations throughout my childhood. Uh, she was a music minister, she was a youth pastor, an associate pastor, um, and then became a lead pastor during my senior year of high school, is actually when she received her first um first vocational posting in that specific capacity. So I have seen ministry in many different forms, and then I myself have been in ministry in many different forms. I have been a media pastor, a children's pastor, a youth pastor, and an associate pastor all over the course of the past few years. And um I uh academically, my background is in Hebrew language and Judaic studies, denominationally, my background is in the Church of God through and through, thanks to this lady sitting across from me. Uh so I am just doing my absolute best in life to follow my sincerest passion, which is promoting biblical literacy, making sure that people understand the truth of scripture and how scripture applies to their daily life. So there's nothing I love more than discussing scripture, and there's no one that I love discussing scripture more with than my mom. So this is just a perfect bridging of all of my favorite things right here in this podcast form.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

It's her turn. Is it my turn? Well, let me introduce myself. I want to I I do want to say that um I'm Kyla's my favorite person to sit with.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

You could have just stopped there.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Uh other people will hear this.

unknown 6:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

Michael, Michael has not made up five minutes at times.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

And if she does, she will text me when she gets right with him.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

She will. But she's my favorite person to discuss um scripture with, and she has a deep understanding of the Hebrew language, and so she has been able to just open up my eyes to so much in the in terms of the old covenant, the Pentatu, and those kinds of things. And uh it has just broadened uh, let's see, my interpretation of scripture, and I'm so thankful for that. But um, my name is Denise, and uh as Kyle has already said, I've worn a lot of hats of ministry, um, uh Christian education director, music minister, all the things that she mentioned, and yes, I am serving currently as uh lead pastor of New Life Fellowship Church of God in Mount Union, Pennsylvania. Uh uh I have had an early pursuit of the word of God, and I plan to leave this planet pursuing his word, and it makes me my heart smile because my daughter is so concerned about um biblical literacy, because if we can come to understand the Bible and have an appreciation for it and the context of scriptures and those kinds of things, it can only enhance our journey with our Lord Jesus Christ, who himself is the living word.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Nice. You put that very succinctly. Did I? Yes, which leads into my next question. I'm gonna let you go first about this one. Um so for this introduction, we just briefly jotted down some questions that we thought would give listeners somewhat of a feel for who we are as people and who we are as scholars of the biblical text, um, and what our interests are, uh, and the things, the scriptures and the passages of scripture that we find ourselves drawn to most deeply. And so my first question, which I mean this is a broad question, we could spend hours on this alone, so that's why I put the word succinctly in here. Describe your relationship with scripture as succinctly as possible.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Are you talking about my my relationship throughout my life with scripture or okay? Um let me just say this. Uh I had an uh incredible and indelible uh experience with the Lord when I was going through a tragedy as a small child, and God's presence was so real to me. And because his presence was so real to me in that time, I always wanted to pursue him. I also before I could read, I remember sitting in church and I was looking through a kid's Bible, and I saw Christ carrying the cross, and I had like an epiphany or whatever, and I knew that that was the person I wanted to be in love with, and I wanted to be in love with Jesus, and so the way, the best way for me to get fall in love with Jesus and learn more about him and learn more about the Father was through his word. So I made a commitment as a child that I would read the Bible every night, at least one chapter. Um, and so that began my journey in scripture. Um, I read the Bible every night, and it was something that I would not deviate from. It was something that I was committed to, and through that, he was being revealed to me. And so then it became uh as I went to college, I wanted to major in Bible, but I was uh like dissuaded from that and told that women shouldn't major in Bible. And then um, so I became a Christian education major, discouraged from that, became a business major I have a minor in Bible and a minor in Christian education. Um, but that pursuit of the word um it's what drove me into ministry, music ministry. You know, we can sing the word, we can preach the word, there's all kinds of ways to um absorb the word, but there's nothing like a a study of his word, and that's where that's where he becomes alive to me. And I think that um it's also where we learn of what he has provided and what he has done for us. And so um, so the the word is everything, it's everything to me, and so that's why I pursue the word.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Uh yeah, the the way that I phrase this question, describe your relationship with scripture as succinctly as possible. For me personally, I mean, my relationship with scripture is the most important and most foundational relationship in my entire life. So I'm sure listeners, after having heard my mother provide that answer, it's no surprise to you that there was not a time in my life where I was a stranger to the word. Uh, she said, and I loved this, we can sing the word, we can preach the word, and my brain automatically provided we can live the word. And I'm so grateful that I was surrounded by strong influences in in my life who not only sang the word, not only preached the word, but they themselves lived the word. So as I've already previously mentioned, uh I had a great grandmother who lived to be 98 years old, my mama golden, and she lived in the home with us as I was growing up, as did my grandmother, who I call mom. You'll hear about her a lot on this, I'm sure. Um, but they were two of the most impactful and indelible influences on my early life, and they constantly read scripture. I mean, you could always find them with a Bible open, and every night Mama would faithfully just continue her chronological reading through scripture. I have no idea how many times she has read through scripture since I've been alive, but that's a journey that she would take me on, reading to me at night. Um, and then of course, growing up with a parent in ministry, as I'm sure all other PKs can attest. I was in the church every time the doors were open, so I'm constantly hearing scripture, so I'm seeing it lived out by example, I'm hearing it constantly being read to me at home and in um congregational church services. And then when I was seven years old, I got introduced to a concept known as Bible quiz, and I competed as a Bible quizzer as a seven, almost eight-year-old. Uh, and basically, for those of you who are unfamiliar, Bible quiz is something that the Church of God does with international teen talent and junior talent, where students have the opportunity to memorize questions about scripture and their answers, and then essentially, like Jeopardy, you buzz in and you answer the questions. Except unlike Jeopardy, you can interrupt questions, which was something that I was known to do quite a bit. Uh, and through Bible quiz, um, it gave me that competitive aspect of being interested in scripture. So at seven years old, I began to compete with Bible quiz, and it's a biennial competition, so every other year I was memorizing scripture specifically for that. Um, and so that that enhanced my relationship with the biblical text somewhat to be to be studying it as in-depth as is required of that competition. Uh, and then I was constantly involved in ministry in different ways. I mean, being a pastor's kid, you know, you you get thrust into a lot of different roles, whether it's, you know, a speaking part in a Christmas play or running media on a Sunday morning, or being pulled up on stage in the middle of a sermon to be the object lesson. Uh and so I all my fellow PKs are the trauma is turning over in their brains right now. And I don't mean to downplay it by calling it trauma, but there there is there needs to be psychological studies done on what it does to a small child to be in the role of a pastor's kid because truly, I mean, your life is unpredictable. You never know what role you're going to be thrust into, and more than that, you never know just how much scrutiny you're under as a small child. There are always people looking at you and weighing in on decisions you're making or things that you're taking part in. So it just it's a very unique uh thing for a child to go through. So in calling it trauma, I'm not trying to to be lighthearted or to uh downplay it or make light of it, but like it really is something that I think can be a little bit traumatic. But anyways, I digress.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

That is not the point. I want to interject something right here, if that's okay. Um, one role or one thing that um I think I'm I'm proud of because you kind of followed me in this, was that when we would have youth camp, uh, I was always the sh the scripture lady, the Bible scripture lady. And I would write the devotions for camp and then uh decide what scriptures need to be memorized for the week. So then uh you were always following me around, helping me with that, helping me keep score because you got the big points from scripture memorization. That's the way you you know you really uh excelled in in your cabin uh competition. And so what's so neat to me is then you became the camp scorekeeper, yeah. Scorekeeper. And just recently you've had campers reach out who are old enough to work now.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

And three of my favorite PKs who were campers when I was the scorekeeper, themselves served as scorekeeper this summer and reached out to me and were like, your legacy is in good hands. That's kind of like a root fruit thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, anyways, all that to say, you know, I I had all of these different exposures to ministry and to the study of scripture very young. But for those who know me, one one thing that is very obvious about me is I'm a very obsessive person. And not only am I a very obsessive person, I'm a very academic person. And those two things coexist in a manner so that I become obsessed with something, and then I need to learn absolutely everything that there is to know about that thing. And the things that I have been obsessed with have ranged from Star Wars to NCIS to women's basketball. Uh, but I've always known this about myself that my ADHD and my OCD coalesce in a way that my obsessions tend to just somewhat be all-consuming, for lack of a better term. And so growing up, I was very mindful of I had this genuine pure interest in the study of scripture, but I knew that I could go deeper in my appreciation for it. And I again, I'm not trying to make light of it in saying this, but I needed to become obsessed with it. And I knew that. And I would pray for that, to have this insatiable desire to study and understand the word of God. And so I would pray for that, and I'll never forget when I went to college, I went to the George Washington University. I enrolled, I matriculated as an international affairs pre-law uh major. And well, I was an international affairs major and I planned to pursue a pre-law track. And I was working full-time at the U.S. Capitol, and I needed classes that would fit with that busy schedule. And some of the classes that I just stumbled my way into were classes within the Judaic Studies Department. I took War and Peace in Israeli society with a professor who became very adamant that I should consider adding Judaic Studies as a major. And I just missed it out of hand at first because I was like, no, I came here to study international affairs. I'm gonna go to law school, I'm gonna be Chief Justice of the United States by the year 2048. Like I had the whole plan laid out, and this idea that I should become a Judaic Studies major, that didn't fit into the plan that I had. And this professor is very dogged in his pursuit of me adding this as a potential major. And I dismiss it out of hand a handful of times, probably. And then I just remember like this gut check moment of you've prayed for this to be an obsession, and you are now potentially squandering the opportunity of allowing your insatiable knowledge, your insatiable love for academia and your insatiable desire for knowledge to come together in scripture. Like you are you have the opportunity to study scripture in an academic way that a lot of people don't have this exact opportunity. I mean, I I know that there are phenomenal Judaic Studies departments all over the world, but the George Washington University, I really believe, is second to none. The professors there have all had an indelible impact on my life, my spirituality. I mean, every aspect of me as a human being. Truly they have impacted. And so I felt like I would not be being a good steward of what I had prayed for if I did not grab this opportunity with both hands. And so I did. And I reg I've not regretted it for a single second since. It was the best decision I think that I've made thus far in my life to become a Judaic Studies major, to study the Hebrew language, to study the Hebrew scriptures, to study at the feet of some of the most phenomenal scholars in the world. Um, and so I'm I'm incredibly grateful that I had that opportunity, and more than anything, I'm grateful that the Lord granted me the desire of my heart. Uh, and I had no idea that in granting the desire of my heart in that way, that he was going to light my heart afire with all of these desires about studying his word and about helping other people study his word, because truly I found my purpose in life. I thought my purpose was going to be law. And little did I know that studying Torah, studying his law was actually going to be my purpose in life and helping other people to study and understand it as well. So that it probably wasn't that succinct, even though I gave you a hard time about it, but that that more or less tells you about my journey with my relationship with scripture uh up until fairly recently.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

Yes, it's been an incredible journey to watch. It's been an interesting journey to live.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

So, my next question, and I know that you begrudge me for this one already. What is your favorite scripture?

SPEAKER_02 20:46

Well, when I was a child, six years old, had to have a surgery, and I was in hospitalized for 17 days. And my pastor and his wife came to visit me and he gave me a Bible, and he had one scripture marked. I went all through that Bible, okay, and I hadn't even started first grade yet, okay? So I really couldn't read. And so I um went through that Bible and found one mark by one scripture, and it was Romans 8.28. And we know that all things work together for the good to those who love the Lord, to those who are the called according to his purpose. And so I felt like my pastor, whom he's gone on to glory now, I felt like he was trying to let me know that this one thing in your life right now is not maybe not be a good thing, but everything's gonna come together, it's all gonna be okay. I had my mom read the scripture to me, and then I memorized it. And so Romans 8 28 has been like my lifelong favorite scripture. Now, I do love, and it's it goes with what we're saying today, okay? It's um from Isaiah the grass withers and the flower fades, but the word of the Lord endures forever. I had to get an old testament scripture in there, so please forgive me. The question was not. Provide a scripture from both testaments. I know. So please, please, because I mean it's hard to pinpoint a favorite scripture. Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

The the people listening at home have no idea that we had a discussion prior to hitting record where mom looked at me and said, I don't have a favorite scripture. And I was like, Yes, you do. It's Romans 8, 28. You absolutely have a favorite scripture. And please know, in saying favorite scripture, I love the way that you described your experience with that verse, because in saying something is my favorite scripture, I'm in no way denigrating the impact or importance of any other scripture. But naturally, as human beings, I think if we should really strip it away and get down to it, every single one of us that has a journey with scripture, we have that one verse that has just tucked itself most intimately into our hearts, if we're being honest. Like it's gotten us through really pivotal, pivotal moments in our lives, or it is a scripture that we memorize as a child, that it has just never been able to vacate our minds or our spirits. Um, and so mine is similar. It's a scripture that I memorized very young. It's a scripture that I memorized for Bible quiz. And it is 1 Peter 1, 6 through 8, a, in this you greatly rejoice, then now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith is much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, it may be found to give praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen, you love him. And it's so interesting to me because I remember like just like the rhythm of that verse striking me as a child, and it was it was very easy for me to memorize for some reason. And it was one of those longer verses in there, so it was really intimidating to the competition when I buzzed in early on that one and got that one right. And it wasn't until a couple of years after I'd memorized it that I really sat with it. And I feel like oftentimes that's the case in people's relationship with scripture, like they encounter scripture and maybe they come to know it in their head, but it takes time for them to truly begin to know it in their heart.

unknown 24:02

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

And after sitting with it, when I got a little bit older, I was like, wait, this is so strikingly beautiful that here we essentially have God reminding us that it's okay, even in the midst of great joy, to acknowledge that we have gone through things, that we have been grieved by various trials. And those trials do cultivate our faith to an extent. You know, within the crucible of those trials, our faith is revealed and is made stronger, but those trials are real, and it's all right to acknowledge that reality. So often I feel like Christians are compelled by Christian culture to just emphasize the victories and the good things, and and it's not that we don't acknowledge that we go through trials, but it's like in the midst of those trials, we should just be focused on the fact that we are assured the victory, right? And yes, we need that assurance, but also sometimes it's okay to feel things. It's okay to be human. You know, there's the humanity of Jesus Christ is what makes what makes the gospel message the good news, right? That he came and he lived as a human. So now that we have a high priest who can sympathize with us in our weaknesses and was in all things tempted just as we are yet without sin, right? Exactly. And because he can sympathize with me, that means he knows what it's like to go through various trials. And so I go through these various trials, and they are the crucible in which my faith is revealed and strengthened. But at the end of the day, I can give testimony of who Jesus Christ is, and having not seen him, I love him. And so that that is why that will always and forever be my favorite scripture. Now, since you've thrown others in, I mean, of course, I love you give one more. I'm not I love Mary's song of praise in Luke. Yes, you do. Yeah, I always I always love that one. Luke 146 through 56. Um, and I I have many others, but since you only gave two, I will only give two. But now I feel like I'm giving you a little bit more latitude and asking this. I'm not asking you to just list one singular scripture, but I do want to know do you have a favorite chapter of scripture? A favorite chapter of scripture.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

I'll tell you one of the most beautiful chapters in scripture is Romans 8.

SPEAKER_03 26:21

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

You can't hardly, you know, if God be for me, who can be against me? The Spirit makes intercession, you know, for us. And so Romans 8, it's it's hard to beat Romans 8. And so, and you know, I could go probably to almost each book of the Bible and give you a favorite chapter. Yes. But Romans 8, it's just like everything just turns right there.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Listen, Romans, you could pull out just about any individual chapter from it. And you could preach and teach strictly on one chapter in Romans for years and never run out of material. So I do think it's very interesting because I know the answer that I'm about to give, and that you gave Romans 8, uh, and I am going to give Genesis 38. And the reason that I think that that's interesting is I think it reveals a lot about us as pastors or as preachers and teachers of the word, because you are very good at teaching epistles and teaching instruction and things of that nature. And I feel like I do tend to uh I tend to use narrative more often. And that's not that's not to say you don't use narrative, it's not to say I don't use epistles, but I I love teaching narrative. I think that narrative is the greatest tool for application to your daily life often, which is very interesting because epistles are addressing specific things and saying this is this is what you do, this is how you live your life, and yet as human beings, I think narrative often has a more direct impact. Or on me, at least. Maybe I should say that that I'm not speaking generally about all humans, but about me specifically. And so Genesis chapter 38 is the story of Judah and Tamar. And I love, there's nothing that I enjoy more than illuminating passages of scripture that are often overlooked. Uh, if you if you've had longer than a few-minute conversation with me about scripture, there's in in all likelihood I've mentioned, you know, Exodus chapter four or The Witch of Endor. Like I just love talking about these little gems that oftentimes are skipped over from pulpits. And I feel like Genesis chapter 38 has been skipped over in a lot of pulpits. But in this story, we find Tamar as a foreign woman, you know, subjected to practices that make her less than. I mean, it's the ancient Near East, being a woman to strike one, strike two, and strike three against you, but uh being a foreign woman who is married into a family of the covenant with Yahweh, and being, you know, her first husband displeases the Lord and he is killed, and then her second husband refuses to procreate with her, and then after he is killed, Judah refuses to give his third son as is her right through the covenant or through the custom of leverite marriage. And so Tamar takes matters into her own hands and covertly has relations with Judah. And I'm not gonna I'm not gonna teach the whole chapter right here, although I really want to. You're doing a great job. Although I really want to. Um, this we'll have to do an episode on this in its entirety, but what is so striking about this passage to me is Judah calls for, Tamar falls pregnant, and Judah calls for her to be put to death as a result of her coming to this unlawful pregnancy. And she does one of the most metal things in all of scripture because when he slept with her, I think when she had her face covered in was disguised as a prostitute, or he mistook her for a prostitute, I should say, uh, he did not have payment with him, so she kept his staff and his signet cord or his ring. And so when she is going to be put to death, she sends these items out and tells the messenger to tell Judah it is by the man to whom these belong that I became pregnant. And that's like one of the most metal moments in all scripture, but Judah looks at these things and he says, She has been more righteous than I. And that to me is like the one line in scripture that I feel like I turn over in my brain and in my spirit most often because number one, I never want to become the person that thinks of myself as being more righteous than anyone else. I always want to be cognizant of the fact that there are others who are more righteous than I. And oftentimes they're the people that I wouldn't look at and give them the label of righteous, right? Because Judah, this is a foreign woman who has seemingly committed sexual immorality, and in this moment of epiphany, he's like, I was the one who didn't fulfill the custom. And so I always want to be cognizant that there are others more righteous than me. And then more than anything, there is one who is more righteous than me. Exactly. And I always want to look to his example, so I I never want to become haughty, I never want to become someone who is assured of my own righteousness because my righteousness only comes from his righteousness, from the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_02 31:30

Um, yes, we need to make a note to actually do a podcast based on that and how it's sandwiched within a narrative.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

Yes. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, we'll do a whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

We gotta do that because um it's it it's incredible. And I have literally read articles about the chapter in Genesis why it's placed there. The one that most pastors would choose to leave out of the Bible if they could, that would be Genesis 38.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

And there there's a reason that it's placed there. So listeners, stay tuned because we'll we'll we need to do that one fairly soon. That's my absolute favorite thing to teach and preach is that story and the trajectory of Judah's character arc. So we will certainly do that. All right, my next question. I was going to ask what's your favorite book of the Bible? But I know for me that is impossible for me to answer, so I decided that we should each make our Mount Rushmore of biblical books. Now I'm gonna I'm gonna leave something up to you. Okay. Do you want to treat this like a draft of sorts? Where once one of us claims that book, the other can't. Oh, we could do that. Do you want to do that? Uh-oh. I know one that we're both going to claim. I do too, and I'll let you go. Ugh, it pains me, but I'll let you go first. And you're gonna take Genesis. I'm taking Genesis. It's always been one of my favorites. Let me go on record. Genesis is my absolute favorite book to study, absolute favorite book to teach, but you took it, so it's yours.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

Well, what do I have to do besides say what why do you include that in your mouth rush? Because you can take and study Genesis and it gives you the it's the foundation of everything. Um that's why it's called Genesis. Uh, and it you can um run the whole gamut, you see, you see redemption, you see um forgiveness, you see repentance, you see it all right there in the book of Genesis, and you see the generations communicating the word um from generation to generation. Um so Genesis, if you can study Genesis and get a grasp on on the book of Genesis, you can see you can see the entirety of the Word of God. Yes, through through which was revealed in Genesis alone. And so um that's why Genesis is is my favorite. Now you can you're welcome since since I'm not gonna let you have Genesis, you're welcome to expound on it a little bit if you'd like. I mean I could talk about Genesis.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

We could talk all day. Yeah, for the rest of my life I could strictly talk about the book of Genesis and be entirely content. But when I say strictly uh talk about the book of Genesis, what I mean is how the rest of Scripture is exemplified in that one book. I mean Jesus Christ is revealed in that book. And so, and that that's something that's not a statement that I make lightly. I know that that book is part of the canon of the Hebrew scriptures, and it can be read and understood and loved through that specific lens, and it's beautiful. But when you view it through the Christian lens, it's so revelatory in a Christian theological sense as well. And so I I I love the book of Genesis, I love the narratives, I love the characters. I think that the most interesting and compelling biblical characters inhabit the book of Genesis, and truly, I mean, I agree with what you said that you you can see the totality of the scriptural narrative encompassed in that one book. But since you took Genesis, I'm gonna I think that you will want this one too. I know where you're going probably. Do you? I'm gonna I'm gonna take a gospel. Oh, okay. And I'm gonna take the gospel of John. Yes. And you wanted that one, didn't you? It's okay. It's okay. You should see her face right now. Um well these two books start off with the same thing. They do, they do, and that's why I if if I had two choices back to back, I would take Genesis and I would take John, because truly, with those two, you have the entirety of scripture. Not not to discredit the other books, and we will talk at great length about the beauty and the revelation in the the other books. But the Gospel of John, I think, is the most important gospel from a theological standpoint. It emphasizes the divinity and the humanity of Jesus Christ so perfectly. It provides truly the foundation for Christian theology, you know, that in the beginning was the word and the word was with God, and the word was God. He was in the beginning with God, and specifically talking about the fact that all things were made by him, and apart from him, nothing was made that was made. That Jesus Christ himself is the creator and is the originator. And so I also love just the intimate portrait of the man of Jesus Christ that we get through the Gospel of John, you know, the the beloved disciple getting to describe him firsthand. And then also I like a little bit of humor, and I love that the Gospel of John is such a funny portrayal of the disciples because you have John calling himself the disciple whom Jesus loved, and then you have him being like, and I was faster than Peter. I beat Peter to the tomb, but uh, but I was respectful enough to stand by the door and wait for him. So and that's something we'll probably talk about at greater length. But yes, I feel like no other gospel portrays Jesus as divine and as human quite so eloquently or beautifully as the Gospel of John.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

That is that's absolutely correct. I just um spent almost a year in the Gospel of John, and that's probably one reason you thought I would say John, but um just what was revealed in the signs of John and uh so uh I could I could stay in John for a very, very long time and we could talk about it. So I'm glad we share that. Okay. So is it my turn now? It is your turn now, yes. Uh if we have a first and a second, can we put them together?

SPEAKER_01 37:40

I don't know which first and second you're about to take. Uh-huh. And if you're if you take what I think you're about, no, you can't put them together. You can't put them together. You can't have them both. Not after you took Genesis from me.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

Okay. Well, look let me go over. Um, I'll I'll take an epistle. Okay. I'll take an epistle. I've already talked about it a few times today. I'll take I'll take Romans.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

I'll I'll take I'll take Romans um because um like you've already you've already said this, that um every chapter in Romans is packed with so much. And so um Romans is one of my absolute favorites to read. I like you I love really all the epistles, but Romans is just like um my all-time favorite. And uh just uh you just learn so much about um about Christ himself. You learn so much about the inner workings of his of the Holy Spirit. Um it's just such a deep theological um teaching there in in the in the book of Romans, as Paul was writing to the church at Rome. And so I I would I I would take Romans. Um it's so this is so hard.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

Isn't it? Isn't it? It is this is this is I'm trying to keep track mentally of like the types of books that you've chosen and the types of books that I've chosen so that we can make it. Yes, yes, you did, and I'm I'm not gonna take it next. So I'm gonna leave it, I'm gonna leave it, and then if you want to take one of them, then I'll take the opposite. But um the reason I'm not taking it next is having taken a gospel, I have to take a book from the Torah. Yes, you do. And I'm gonna take Exodus.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

And I really thought about this because I I truly, I I genuinely mean this. I feel like this is such a Judaic Studies major thing to say. Um I have some friends that love to make jokes of of the nature of I'm a Judaic Studies major, of course, you know, in the trend of the t the TikTok trend where it's like, I'm a blank, of course. Right. Um so I'm a Judaic Studies major. Of course, I'm gonna say I love all the books of the Torah, but I really do. Like I can make a case for Leviticus, even. I know that that's that's the stepchild of the Torah in terms of Christian theology. Like that's the one that we we view as uh comp complicated, is the word that I'll use. Um it's not one that you hear preach from the pulpit very often, but I'm I'm choosing Exodus because I want the introduction of the character of Moses. I want early Moses, I want Moses at the burning bush, I want God revealing his name to humanity for the first time and saying, Ayyay, Asher, AA, I am that I am, I was what I was, I will be what I will be. I want Zipporah at the end. Uh I want Miriam and Aaron beginning this journey uh and all all of the complexities therein. So for for those reasons, uh I'm I'm gonna take Exodus. And we get we get to we get to Sinai in Exodus. I'm gonna I'm gonna take Exodus.

SPEAKER_03 40:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 40:50

I love I love the book too, especially after you you um taught what you did in your Hebrew class here at the church. But I mean I've always I've always loved Exodus, um, but you just brought out so much that I had never not even seen in my careful read of of Exodus. And this is I I know we're doing this, but I want to just interject something here that you challenged me to do. Um probably maybe your um junior year at GW. You challenged me to try to read the old covenant as if I'd never read it before and not reading it through the lens of a Christian. And that's hard to do when you're a Christian, but when you start reading it and seeing what's there that has not been put in your mind that's there, it causes Genesis and Exodus and Leviticus and all the numbers, Deuteronomy. You read them totally differently than you ever have because I've always read them, you know, just for the what I was looking for, and sometimes what I'd been taught was there, and sometimes some of the things that we were taught was not actually there, but it makes it an even more beautiful book, makes makes them all more beautiful, and so yeah, I understand you choosing Exodus, and so okay. So whose turn is it? You're on the clock, I'm on drafting next. I'm on the clock. Well, this one would be it's so many people's favorite. Okay. I'm going with Psalms.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

I was wondering when one of us was gonna take it. And I figured you would. I'm going with Psalms because Pause. Before you say anything else, though, I want you to bear in mind this is your third pick. Okay. You haven't picked one of those books of two that I know that you're dancing with, picking over there. You also haven't picked a gospel, so I'm just putting that out there. Well, you picked my gospel for me. My favorite, my favorite gospel is still on the table. Uh-huh. Anyways, go ahead, Psalms. So, Psalms.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

Because it is the hymn book, it is the song book, okay? But you experience every emotion uh humanly possible as you walk through the Psalms, and you hear um the songwriters. And so many people think David wrote them all. David didn't write them all. You have other writers in there, but he he he did write a lot of the psalms. But you literally see um them experiencing every um possible situation, every emotion, and then you see them being able to tie back to God is good and God is is he's great and he's wonderful to be praised. And then you get to the end, then you end with the psalms of praise. Okay. But the writers they acknowledged everything that they felt, they acknowledged the full weight of their depression, they acknowledge the full weight of grief, the full weight of being found in their sin and needing needing to have the joy of their salvation restored. You find everything in the Psalms. And um, so I can't right now, you know, there's so many of them, shortest chapter, longest chapter, you know, and all that guy. There's just so much that could be unpacked there. But I have to say, I absolutely love the psalm. I remember when I did a conscious study of psalms um about when I was in my 30s, and it proved to just be such a life-changing thing for me. Um, when I when I walk through each individual psalm. And so um, I'm going with Psalms.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

Yeah. Obviously, I I have a lot of love for the Psalms. I'm currently in the midst of transliterating the Psalms, and you're right, the the breadth of the human experience is laid bare in the Psalms, and not just the breadth of the human experience, but the breadth of the spiritual experience. Exactly. Yes. And so, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:53

And so, and I love the pilgrimage psalms. Yeah. I do. Okay. That's enough about Psalms.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

Okay. We get we do a whole well, it would we would need many episodes to unpack the Psalms. Okay, since you took the Psalms, I am going to now pick what I'm presuming is one of the books that we've been backing. Yes. Um, and I'm really struggling with which to take, but I am going to take the book of 2 Samuel. Okay. And is that are the that the one and two that you were thinking about? Yes, that's the one and two. Okay. Okay. Um, and I I love 1 Samuel. As a small child, I remember my favorite scripture being 1 Samuel, like being a uh um the verse in 1 Samuel where Samuel is told to arise and fill his horn with oil and go and anoint a son of Jesse. And I've always so I've all I've always loved 1 Samuel. I love David's early narratives. I love David before he becomes king, but just the story of restoration and forgiveness and grace that is shown throughout the book of 2 Samuel is something that is so special to me. And I I love the narrative of Absalom. I love the character of David that is revealed by all of these horribly tragic mistakes that he makes. And and and in saying mistakes that he makes, I mean, like I I teach in very strong terms what David is capable of and what he does. I mean, I I will say it now that David rapes Bathsheba. Right. And as a man that is guilty of rape and of murder, and yet still is able to be the man after God's own heart. And he be because he acknowledges the totality of his sin. Right. He doesn't shy away from it, he knows what he has done, and he names what he has done. Yeah, he does that in Psalms. Yes, he does that in Psalms, and he sincerely repents of it. And after sincerely repenting from it, everything's not sunshine and rainbows for him. He still deals with the fallout of what his sin has wrought, and and that's not the only sin that he's guilty of. I mean, he is guilty of inaction in light of Amnon's rape of Tamar. Right. And so there David is such a wonderfully complex character. He's such a compelling character, and the the details of his reign as king over the United Kingdom of Israel and Judah. That's another book that I could just study and teach and talk about all the time and never run out of material. So for those reasons and for the importance of the character of King David, I'm I'm gonna claim 2 Samuel.

SPEAKER_02 47:46

Okay. I wanted to put 1st and 2 Samuel together as one, but um I will go with I will go with 1 Samuel right now. So you're not going to take a gospel. I'm not taking the gospel. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 47:58

All right, Pastor, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 48:01

So I'm taking 1 Samuel. And one reason I'm taking 1 Samuel is because when I was when I was the little girl reading my Bible and reading through 1st and 2 Samuel, they both just captured me. And what I would do was I would go through, um, I was probably nine years old, and every time every place that said behaved himself wisely in 1 Samuel, David, he would do things and he would behave himself wisely. I would underline that because I wanted to be a person who would behave wisely in this in the circumstances in which I was placed. And everybody always goes to the Goliath narrative or whatever. But um, and I mean that's powerful, and like we could talk, we could talk through that or whatever, and how he didn't shy away, how he ran to face his giant, how he how he slaughtered his the giant that was placed in front of him. But he was the reason he could do that was not because of he was David, it was because he was doing it on behalf of God, and so that God's name would be honored and God would be seen. But um his his uh covenant relationship with Jonathan, um, I know there's a lot of controversy about that covenant relationship today and stuff like that. But that covenant relationship, years ago, I came across a devotion written by Kay Arthur, who's gone on to be with the Lord, and it was a a devotion based on that covenant, and she had two months of devotions, and God began to lead me through that covenant relationship and um his covenant relationship with us, and I went and put the what I'd call the meet on uh the daily devotions, and um I began teaching on covenant after that, and I've had requests that I come teach this um to different churches and stuff, and so um, but K Arthur then years later came out with the book, Our Covenant God, and it's a lot of what I had been teaching, but because of what I gained um out of that uh the covenant there, and um then David and his life of him just out there doing what he was doing and falling in love with Jesus, or falling in love, I can't say Jesus, falling in love with God and God's ways, which is all pointing to what is to come, which is Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 50:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 50:29

I just love for Samuel. I just I always have.

SPEAKER_01 50:32

All right. So I I feel like I have placed more emphasis on trying to select types of books than maybe you have, because I I've taken a gospel, I've taken a book from Torah, I've taken another old covenantal book, and so I feel like I have to take a New Testament book and I need to take an epistle. And I'm I've I'm I've struggled over here internally because there there are multiple that I want to take. Um and I feel like we both should give our honorable mentions after I close this out with the last one that I am taking. But as much as I love and study other epistles, the one that I have to take is 1 Corinthians. Like I can't can't leave that one on the table. If if for no other reason than for chapter 13, I mean that would be enough. The love chapter. I absolutely that's that is one of my favorite chapters to teach, especially to young people, teaching them specifically to read that. And you are the one who taught me this, to put your own name as the subject of the sentence instead of love. So to say, Kyla is patient, Kyla is kind. And until those things become true, I haven't really taken that chapter fully to heart. So the love chapter alone is enough, but also just the way that Paul talks about the nature of the spirit, the Holy Spirit of God, and what it means for the church and for the believer, and for us to be embarking on a podcast called Good Fruit, Good Root. Right. Like we we have to have the teaching of 1 Corinthians in there. And a conversation that we've been engaged in recently is this emphasis on spiritual gifts in the modern church and specifically within Pentecostal denominations, the emphasis on the gift of speaking in tongues, which I am not here to besmirch or belittle the importance of speaking in tongues. We we will talk about the we will talk about the operation of the spiritual gifts in due time at great length on this podcast, I am sure. But the way Paul talks about the operation of all nine gifts needing to be active for the church to fulfill the true mandate of its mission, right? And what does it profit the body if it's all a finger, all an eye? You know, we need all nine of the gifts of the spirit in order to be the church that we were created and called to be. And so for those reasons, I've I've got to take First Corinthians.

SPEAKER_02 53:03

If I had not taken Romans, that was where I would have gone first.

SPEAKER_01 53:08

Do you know what my what my other epistle would have been?

SPEAKER_02 53:10

Which one?

SPEAKER_01 53:10

Well, the first the first one that I wanted to take was First Peter. Uh-huh. Because I love First Peter. And First Peter as a woman is a very complex and complicated book to have that relationship with. Uh and I I but I love I I love First Peter. I always have, but I also was really tempted by Galatians.

SPEAKER_02 53:31

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 53:31

I really enjoy Galatians.

SPEAKER_02 53:33

Most people choose Philippians, the epistle of joy.

SPEAKER_01 53:36

Yeah, well. My favorite scriptures about various trials. Um, but my other my other honorable mentions were uh it was it was kind of hard to leave um I didn't want to leave Esther on the table because that's like I believe the most cinematic book, and I I love to teach Esther. And then also uh I really I I went back and forth. Um I wanted to take uh one of the Deuteronomist histories, and I I went back and forth between Judges and Ruth.

SPEAKER_00 54:10

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 54:11

But I'm I'm happy with my selection of four. I cannot believe that you left my favorite gospel on the table. I talked at such great length about John, but I want the people to know that my favorite gospel is Luke. Luke. I love the gospel of Luke.

SPEAKER_02 54:25

So well to be honest, I love all four gospels. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 54:31

I love all 66 books. I love all six books.

SPEAKER_02 54:34

Yeah, because I even love the Apocrypha. Yeah, I do love um all four gospels. I I love uh you just you you need all four to get the total picture, you know. Um, but because I mean you chose John. I didn't get to choose John. I didn't get to choose Genesis. But uh I think my I think the next gospel that I'm going to uh uh really study is gonna be Mark. I think I'm gonna go um and really dissect Mark, and uh I think that's the next place I'm going.

SPEAKER_01 55:09

What I think is very interesting about this question is if you pose this question to us on a different day, we would have entirely different answers. Genesis and probably John, those two would stay, and probably Psalms. But you know, different different books mean different things to us in different seasons of our life. Exactly. And so I think it would be a really interesting experiment. But maybe we should maybe we should answer this question annually and see how our answer kind of ebbs and flows with the tides of life.

SPEAKER_02 55:37

I get one more honorable mention. Go ahead. You can have as many as you want. James.

unknown 55:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:42

I like the book of James. I do too. Martin Luther. Neither of us want to kick it out. Neither of us are Martin Luther, which is ironic, deeply ironic, because he's one of my top three favorite historical figures of all time. But yeah, I he and I would not get along if the subject of the book of James came up. So okay. Okay. Um now we were moving from such a serious and long-winded question to a kind of funny and hopefully shorter one. I want to ask you, Pastor, what's your biggest pastoral pet peeve? Oh, my biggest pastoral pet peeve. And so let me let me um for the listeners at least kind of expand on that and say, you can answer, like, as a pastor, what's something that, you know, is a nuisance to you, or you can answer what is something that pastors generally do that is a pet peeve of yours.

SPEAKER_02 56:35

Okay. Uh I don't I'm gonna answer what's something that I see pastors do that's a pet peeve of mine that I cannot do.

SPEAKER_01 56:45

Okay, and before she says this, I do I want to let listeners know. We we looked at the questions that we were going to answer before we began recording. And this one specifically, I said I'm gonna let you talk first. And she said, What if I take yours? And so I'm gonna see if what she says is also my biggest pet peeve. And if it is, I'll give I'll give a secondary answer.

SPEAKER_02 57:07

Okay. Um, my biggest pet peeve is when pastors are getting the congregation to repeat what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_01 57:16

Oh you did it! I thought that you might not, but you did it. So I will think of a second one while you think you'd be thinking.

SPEAKER_02 57:26

Um and have have everybody just repeat it.

SPEAKER_01 57:29

You might need to repeat it because I screamed so that my friend they heard it.

SPEAKER_02 57:32

All right. Um when it was when pastors have this kind of generic prayer and they tried to base it out of Romans 10, 9, and they have the congregation kind of follow along, and then if you prayed this prayer, raise your hand, and then we count all the salvations. And I know people probably aren't gonna like this, but um it's hard for me to believe um that there is a a head and heart conversion based out of that. The thing that bothers me the most is they never even complete Romans 10 9. They'll say, if you believe in your heart, and that what you're supposed to do is you're supposed to confess with your mouth, okay, that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, and that is always left off. And I can remember one time I had a young girl I was counseling, and she said, I can believe, um, let's see, I can confess with my mouth that Jesus is Lord. She said, But I can't believe that raised from the dead part. And I said, Well, sweetheart, I hate to tell you this, but you can't be saved if you don't believe that God raised him from the dead.

SPEAKER_01 58:48

You have not been saved.

SPEAKER_02 58:49

You have not been saved if you um do not believe that God has raised him from the dead, because you have to believe that God has raised him from the dead, and when you believe that, then you can believe that God can raise you to new life. And that's part that's part of salvation, is being raised to new life and becoming that new creation in Christ. And so I just don't see how you can at least if you're going to start with Romans 10 9 and use that for your lead-in closing prayer to get all the hands raised, okay. You use the entirety of it and let the emphasis be on the fact that Christ has been raised from the dead. So that's my my peppee. And if you want to take it, you can elaborate more on that. No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 59:35

I mean, you you did a phenomenal job, and I I agree with everything that you said, but no nothing irks me more than sitting in a service and having to repeat the quote unquote sinner's prayer and then those numbers being tallied for salvations for the congregation. Because I'm I'm not saying that you can't have a salvation experience repeating the sinner's prayer, but you cannot guarantee that every person that raises their hand and repeats has had a genuine heart conversion, as you said. And so that that is a is a big pet peeve of mine. But I think I have one that is equal. It's it's right there, even tied for first with that, and it kind of goes hand in hand because you you're talking about how they they base the premise of this idea on scripture, but don't even use the totality of the scripture. Exactly. And I will say my biggest past storyline pet peeve is when a sermon does not have very much scripture in it. And it a lot a I have a lot of scriptural pet peeves. I don't like it when a pastor reads one scripture out of context and doesn't provide the scriptures that come around it uh within the biblical text, or that they don't at least explain the context within which it exists in scripture. Um I also don't like it when pastors just recite a scripture and then just talk and don't really bridge what what they are saying has to do with the scripture that they have read. So I nothing bothers me more than when I've sat in a church service for, you know, insert X amount of time, let's say an hour, and I haven't heard a scripture in its entirety. I just I can't, I can't deal with that. Um I, you know, we both of us learned um a lot of things pastorally from a person I consider to be a spiritual father and a person who you consider a mentor, Ray Dawson. And he always had a phrase that he said where he would say, for every minute that you are in the pulpit, you need an hour of study behind it. And I really took that to heart as a young person. And I have my own version of it, which is essentially for every minute that you're preaching, you need some basis in scripture to what you are saying. I just I I hate to phrase it this way, but I just don't care about people's opinions that much. So the the thing that's going to sincerely transform the life of someone sitting in the congregation is not what I have to say, it's what the Word of God has to say. And so when people can stand behind a pulpit and lecture at great length and not actually dive in and teach anything about scripture, I I don't believe that what they're doing is preaching or teaching. I believe it's grandstanding. And I just having had some very impactful experiences with services like that, which I'm sure we'll get into at some point. Maybe we'll have to change some names. But I nothing bothers me more than someone purporting to be preaching the word of God and they're really preaching their own words.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:58

Exactly. And you know, what little scriptures sometimes they throw in there, they have taken and manipulated the scripture to fit what they're wanting to present. And that that literally grieves the spirit of God in me when I when I know that's going on.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:17

So um we gave like two very genuine and sincere answers, but I I want to provide like a little bit of a funny one because one thing that does irk me too is I don't know if you'll agree with this. Again, I'm generalizing painting with a broad brush here, but in my experience, typically, male pastors, male ministers stand up and talk about their wives strictly about their physical attractiveness. Like they'll be like, oh my hot wife, you know, and just go on and on about how beautiful their wife is and how she's out of their league and all these things. And then female ministers, female pastors, when they get up and they talk about their husbands, typically like they just kind of like lovingly roast their husbands and talk about how like silly they are. And I just think that, you know, that archetype is it's funny, but it's a little bit of a pet peeve of mine. Like, I just want a male pastor who's evangelizing to take the pulpit and not tell me how hot his wife is. Right. And I want a female pastor to, you know, just give her husband a little bit of credit sometimes. Not you specifically necessarily, um, but some female pastors out, you know. Um okay, so next question. And we are we are winding down. We've got just a couple left, and they're all they'll they should be somewhat rapid fire. Okay. Uh, but my next question is what are you currently studying slash reading? Where do you find yourself in your study?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:35

Oh, that's uh right now I'm really studying the Holy Spirit and the Interesting the Numa and the Ruakakadesh. And what's amazing right now is where I am also in the pulpit. A lot of times what I'm studying is not where I am in the pulpit. But right now the two happen to be uh intersecting. And so um And you're starting a podcast called Good Fruit, Good Roots. I know. It's it's like it's all just come to come together. I wouldn't call it a perfect storm, but I would call it, you know, just uh a god wink. A god wink.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:15

Oh, is that is that your god wink of belief? That's my god wink of the week. All right, we'll circle back to that in a moment. Um so so that's where you find yourself in your study.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:24

Uh I interestingly, I have found myself studying uh the book of Acts through the lens specifically of the Holy Spirit per some conversations with some great friends of mine. Shout out Hannah, shout out Jaden. They've inspired me to be looking more in depth in the book of Acts. And then also because International Bible quiz competition is right around the corner, I I am in 1 Samuel, because that is the book on which the manual is based. And then, as I previously mentioned, uh an ongoing, an ongoing work in my life is uh me transliterating the Psalms. So I find myself in the Psalms. A good bit. But I'm also reading, this isn't scripture, of course, but I'm reading God Was in This Place and I I Did Not Know by Lawrence Kushner. I haven't finished it yet, so maybe I'll give a little bit of a review when I when I complete it. But um I've been really into Lawrence Kushner and reading some of his books lately, so that's that's where I'm at in study. All right. So next question. What's your favorite moment of revelation that you've experienced while reading scripture? And I want I want to tell the listeners and you, I haven't disclosed this to you, but when I was writing these questions down, my brain provided the words um, what's what's your favorite moment of epiphany that you've experienced? And I immediately checked myself and was like, no, no, no, not epiphany, revelation. Okay. Like what what's the moment? Because I'm in my experience, I don't realize these things. They are revealed to me. And so what's your favorite moment? And maybe it's not your favorite, maybe it's just the first one you think of, because I want us to each just give one right here a moment where you're reading scripture and you just the light bulb came on about something.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:05

Uh this was probably when uh you were probably maybe less than a year old. And uh uh Michael, I'd got you down, you know, you didn't sleep very well. We'll talk about still don't, we'll talk about that later. But anyway, I went downstairs and I was just sitting with the Lord and reading in Isaiah, and I was in Isaiah 58 and uh about the fast that I've chosen, and and the Lord had been dealing with me about uh personal fasting and that kind of stuff. But as I was reading and it began to talk about when you uh institute the fast that I've chosen, okay, these are the things that will happen. And then when I I literally saw from Isaiah 58 to Luke 418, and um which is the spirit of the Lord is upon me because he's anointed me, and I could see such a direct parallel from Isaiah 58 to Luke 4.18 to and of course that's Isaiah 61, and for for the Holy Spirit to take all of those in a second and pull them all together, and it was like I was so it was like this my uh it's almost like my temple couldn't take it because he was literally giving it all to me in like a millisecond. And it wasn't something that I had to go think through this to see this to see this. It was immediate. I literally put my Bible down because I was so overwhelmed at the revelation as he was pulling it all together in that in that uh just such a short span of time. I was so overwhelmed by his word, I had to lay it aside and just sit in his word. Is is the um, and I just remember that and I went and ran a revival right after that. And uh the pastor that I was running the revival for was kind of blown away with some of the revelation that I was giving while I was preaching. And he came to me and wanted to know who I was reading behind or who was I studying behind. And I was so naive that I said, I'm reading the Bible and the Holy Spirit's teaching me. And it was almost like I was almost scoffed at because I couldn't be getting this revelation from him myself. I had to be reading somebody else's books, and so that's that's one that jumps out at me.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:30

Um you saying that just reminds me of um I walked out of having spoken one time to an assembled group of students, and I remember uh a fellow adult looking at me and being like uh expressing appreciation and respect for the way that I I speak in those moments, and she was like, I just um like you do such a great job, and I was like, Oh, it's not me. And I just said it like so so immediately and then it became a joke between the two of us because she was like, What is it like your alter ego, like your Sasha Fierce?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:08

And I was like, No, it's the Holy Spirit, but and and that's one thing when he reveals like that, he shows you things or he gives you things while you're speaking, because we study and we prepare, but he eliminates so much in the while we're teaching and preaching, we can talk about that sometime. But anyway, when you walk away, there's no way that I can say it was me.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:29

Yeah, I can't take credit for it.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:30

I can never ever ever take credit for it. I've been told it's a false humility, but no, I I just can't. Now see, I'm about to cry. I just cannot take credit because I know it's him. I know I know this elder age schoolgirl with a simple mind, and there's no way I could do that. It's him.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:46

Yeah, yeah. And I mean I I agree. It does doesn't matter how much education I have or amass, doesn't matter how much experience I have or amass. I mean, knowledge comes from experience, but wisdom comes from the Lord.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:01

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:01

And so anytime I say anything that can be categorized as wise, it's not me. Uh my favorite, I I I I've had moments of revelation, you know, in the midst of teaching that have just been incredible and enlightening. I've had moments of revelation uh so many times in study, but the one that stands out to me as as being my favorite because it truly, I just think, shifted my entire perspective on the nature of God and his relationship with humanity was a few years ago, I was studying to speak to my youth group, uh, and we were working our way chronologically through scripture. And this this is truly what I love most about scripture is that I can read the same verse a million times and have a different revelation every time. It can speak to me differently according to what I need in that moment or according to the circumstances of my life in that moment or in that season. And so I was reading in Genesis 3. I mean, Genesis 3, I've probably read no exaggeration, probably a hundred times in my life, that chapter, because it's such an oft quoted and off-studied chapter of scripture. And I was reading it, and uh I I got to to the portion where Adam and Eve have hidden themselves from God. They've attempted to cover their perceived nakedness, um, and they they have hidden themselves in the midst of the garden. And God is the one who calls out to them and asks them where they are. He comes looking for them, he seeks to find them. And I just remember this one day I was in the sanctuary next door to where we happen to be recording right now, and I was reading it, and just as you described, I literally sets the scripture aside and just sat with it for a few minutes because I was so overwhelmed and overcome that I began weeping. And it wasn't like my typical cry, it was just like a slow, steady weep of like, that is the most beautiful thing. And in that moment of revelation, I just I knew that that that was a message that so many people need to hear that we in our humanity and in our sinfulness, we tend to remove ourselves from the presence of God, from the manifest presence of God. We take ourselves out of it on account of our sinfulness. When the reality is that even in the midst of our sinful state, he comes searching for us. He pursues us. And we think that we are unworthy of that pursuit. We think that we don't deserve to stand within his divine presence anymore, but he is still moving in the garden at the breezy time of day. He comes looking for us in the midst of our sinfulness, and that's typified in the man Jesus Christ. Exactly. That in the midst of our sinfulness, he came searching for us while we were yet sinners. He lived for us and he died for us. And I just that that moment. And you know, maybe it's interesting because, you know, there there are other things that I teach and preach that academically are probably more impressive than that, but that will always be the revelation that just I don't mean to say this word with a negative connotation at all, but like it haunts me. It hangs over me in all that I preach and all that I study and all that I do, that God pursues us even in the midst of our sinfulness. And that the only thing that removes us from him isn't even the sin itself, it's us it's us choosing the sin, or it's us choosing to not be in his divine presence. Nothing has the power to remove us from him except for us and the decisions that we make. And that just and even when we make those decisions, he still comes looking. Wow. Okay, so now that we've gotten really heavy, we're gonna wrap this up um with hopefully a little bit of levity, something something kind of joyful and something kind of funny. So, first thing, uh, we mom and I have have something that we like to say, we we we call certain moments in our lives god winks, right? These moments where it's almost like the divine is just winking at us uh in an intimate way, showing us that he's real or that you know life is beautiful and worth living. And so I wanted us weekly to take a moment of reflection and each of us just give God credit for a God wink that week. So, what's your God wink this week?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:34

Well, I've already kind of said a god wink, you know, earlier. But um what we're doing right now, uh doing the podcast and all, and I know that the sitting this week, it was a couple of weeks ago, okay. I was preaching, and I'll never forget it because as I was saying something and I had kind of deviated from my notes, and God wishes his spirit was just speaking through me. I said something, and I saw my minister of music, my worship pastor, and my uh Hannah just does everything. But anyway, I saw her turn, her neck turned almost like the exorcist neck.

unknown 1:16:14

Bro.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:18

But she literally snapped her neck and turned and looked to the back of the sanctuary where Kyla was. And uh, but they they had had a conversation the day before, and I think Hannah thought Kyla and I had got together and I was privy to their conversation, and then it was being revealed in the pulpit, but I had no idea what they had discussed. But what they discussed and what I said in that Sunday morning service, which all ties to this the Holy Spirit, the stay of the Holy Spirit, okay, was about the importance of um fruit in our lives. And uh, and so that's kind of where the name of this podcast came from. And I felt like when all those things came together, okay, I felt like that was a God week.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:02

Yeah, and and I'm interestingly, I I had chosen something in my brain, and I'm gonna change it now on account of you giving that answer. But, you know, we said at the at the top of recording this that we've had people approach us expressing interest in this and a desire for us to start this podcast for a long time, and we've really wrestled with what to call it, what it should be branded as, uh, and what what the central premise of it should be. Obviously, it's us discussing and dissecting scripture, which I know this episode is just an introduction, but starting next episode, like we're going to read and discuss in-depth scripture. Right. And we always knew that was going to be the central premise, but exactly what that looked like and under what banner and name we were going to be doing that was something that we've, you know, we've gone back and forth and we've had a bunch of different ideas. And that but that that day after you said that in the pulpit and Hannah had that reaction, and then I'll provide what I'm gonna give as my Godwink was um another really good friend of mine, Jaden. Um, so Hannah and I had a conversation about two days prior to you um preaching that sermon. And then the next day, the day immediately prior to the sermon, Jaden calls me, and he is venting about a specific church service that he found himself in that that was so concerned with the idea of the gifts of the spirit moving and operating that the way Jaden described it was that they were interested in the gifts, they were not interested in the giver. And that grieved the Spirit of God within him. And so he called and he vented, and we had this whole conversation about, you know, just the state of the modern evangelical Pentecostal church and all these different things. And so he and I had that conversation, and then he goes to his home church on Sunday morning, and I go to church here with you and with Hannah, and you are not aware at this point in time of the conversation I've had with Hannah or the conversation I've had with Jaden, and you preaching, say, some things verbatim from the conversation that Hannah and I had. So Hannah's head snaps to me. And almost simultaneously with that happening, Jaden begins texting me, sending me quotes of what his pastor is saying from the pulpit in his church, which is making the exact same point that you're making in the pulpit in our church. And just knowing that the Spirit of God was moving with such specificity in two different congregations through two different pastors to communicate the same truth.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:22

Like that was just that was one of those God wink moments. That's a serious wink. Yeah. Yeah. That maybe is a little bit more, maybe a little bit more conspicuous than a wink. He might have been shaking us by the shoulders a little bit with that one. Okay, so as we wrap up, as we wrap up, the last question that I want to pose. This is another, so God wink of the Godwink of the week is what we something that we want to be a weekly segment. And I believe this is to, um, I'm I am in the market for a better title if anyone has one, but right now we're calling this priceless pulpit. So a moment in the pulpit or a moment in ministry that was priceless to you, and I don't mean, I mean all moments in ministry are priceless. It's a glorious burden that we bear being ministers of the gospel, and I don't mean burden with a negative connotation, but it is. And it is a burden. It is not a negative connotation necessarily, but all moments are priceless. But I mean this specifically through the lens of humor, like a moment where you were like, oh, this is gonna be a story that I'm gonna tell forever. So do you have a moment?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:24

Uh yes, I have a moment that uh that I will share. I have many. Yeah, we got a lot of them tucked in the city. Not M-I-N-I-M-A-N-Y. I have many moments, but this one happened one time when I was um actually I had traveled um to do a women's conference a couple of years before, and then I was invited to um come to a church that that had women at that conference, and so they invited me to come preach at this church. It was uh over outside of Baltimore, and uh I went, I'll never ever forget it, because I'm during praise and worship. This lady comes to me and she says to me, she said, I heard you speak a couple of years ago at a women's conference, and she said, Um, I was bound by fear, I I was just bound with so many things. She said, I wouldn't, I didn't want to come out of my house. I didn't want she said I was just afraid. And she said, You preached and you just preached the word in this conference. And she said, While you were preaching the word, she said, um everything those things broke off of me. The preached word, the anointed preached word broke all that fear off of me. She said, I'm leaving this week. I'm going to the mission field, I'm going to do missionary work. And she said, I just wanted you to know that the Lord used you to um preach his word. This was broken off of me. This is what I'm doing. So I had this great, like, moment, you know, God, you really are using me, you know. And so then I preached the message and I'm moving into the altar service. Keep in mind that we are Pentecostal. And um people come to the altar, I'm praying with them. And there's this elderly lady, bless your heart, bless your foot. She steps out of her pew and she starts coming forward and she wants me to pray for her. And when she did, she tripped and she fell. And everybody thought she had been slain in the spirit. So suddenly this prayer line forms from the front of the altar to the back of the church because everybody wants to be slain. And it was all because this woman tripped tripped and fallen. And she was okay. She was okay when she when she got up. But I don't I don't know about all the other people.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:36

But um did any of them did they get slain?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:39

Well, what happened was about three of them just fell out in that moment, and I'm just like, oh my word, you know, because it people were really wanting to spend some carpet time that night in that service.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:50

Making you wonder if it's people drinking mocktails but acting as if they're under the influence. That's right. Uh-huh. Um, all right. So this obviously has to be my first, my first priceless pulpit moment. Anyone that I've spent any amount of time talking to about ministry has definitely heard this story. Um, and the the specific subject of the story is probably going to come up quite a few times um under Priceless Pulpit because I was a children's pastor for a period of time. And being a children's pastor, it's it's such a unique joy. It's such a special experience, and it gives you so much comedic material because children, I do think they're genuinely my favorite demographic to minister to because they're so readily willing to accept truth and they're so naturally and innately hungry for truth. Like you can take such complex theological topics and teach them to children and they just they they absorb it like a sponge. And also, I believe it's such an important challenge for you to undergo as a minister to try to explain things to children because until you can explain things in the simplest possible terms, I don't really know that you sincerely understand it yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:08

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:09

And so I I loved my tenure as a children's minister. It it aged me a lot, but but I loved it and I loved my students more than life itself. And I had one student in particular who was just quite a character. I had many students that were very different characters in their own right. But this one in particular, I'll never forget, I, as a minister in all capacities, love to utilize the Socratic method. And what I mean by that is I pose a lot of questions as I'm teaching and as I'm preaching, and I like for people to respond to those questions. And so my students knew that, and I posed a question and a hand shot up, and so I acknowledged the student who raised her hand and I said, Jayla, yeah, what what's your what's your response? And she looked at me and she goes, Oh, I don't have one. I just forgot my name, and I knew you'd say it if I raised my hand. So she knew I would directly address her if she raised her hand, and four-year-old Jayla had forgotten her name.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:05

Her mama knew her name.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:06

I knew Jayla's name. So I was like, Jayla, oh nothing. I forgot my name. So Jayla. Jayla has some iconic moments that that we'll we'll get into as as time goes on. But those are the segments that we wanted to introduce. Hopefully, in this hour and a half, you feel like you've been introduced to us as people. Uh, in due time, we are going to get into all sorts of subjects in scripture, but but we want to do it all through the lens of what are we rooted in as Christians and what fruit should our lives be bearing if that is our root. And of course, we need to be rooted in a real relationship with Jesus Christ through the guiding and leading of the Holy Spirit of God. And if we are rooted in that, then we will be bearing the fruits of that spirit. Uh, and so, like I said, we'll tackle all manner of things. We'll tackle great theological questions, we will work our way chronologically through scripture. We're going to the the world of scripture is our oyster here. We there's nothing's off limits, and I'm really, really, really looking forward to going on this journey with you, Mom. Yeah, I'm excited too, boo.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:14

I know I've had a lot of tears today. It's just uh I'm excited about this. I think it's been a long time coming, but I do think this is the time. And I think that because of that God shake, god wink, whatever you want to call it.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:27

Yeah, God earthquake. Yeah. All right, so so thank you guys for listening. We sincerely appreciate it. And yeah, tune in. We'll by the time this goes up, we'll have an episode immediately following. So you should be able to click after an hour and a half. You probably want to take a little bit of a break. But be sure to listen to our first full episode and come along with us on this journey. Looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:52

Shalom, you know, I'm gonna go.